Looks to be a good set

My two cents worth again........People express art forms in all sorts of ways that may either please or offend. They can oil paint, sculpt, wood carve or photograph. These forms can cover anything from a gentle flower to the face of Satan himself. Those forms have a very broad range of subject matter. For us military modelers the subject is one thing only.......people and machines that do great harm to other people and machines. To me , a person who takes on this kind of hobby should not be such a cry baby if there are casualties portrayed in the art form. I would also like wars to be fought with water balloons, but if they were .........sure enough, some whiner would complain because someone got wet and caught a cold. Of coarse depending on the wet person someone would accuse the other of racism .I am willing to bet that most of the whiners never spent a day in the military. Stop being such a wannabe through this art form............Please stop crying.......you'll short out your computer.................Al

A quote from some guys almost as smart as me... “It is well that war is so terrible, or we should get too fond of it". Gen. Robert E. Lee "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Edmund Burke via. George Santayana It's a big hobby - there's room for alot of different ideas no?

If I look at myself and why Im interested in Military History, its because war in itself has so much impact on society and our lives on a personal level. And Im not only in to Military History but also in common History not only post 1900. To me, war brings out the best and worst in man. And I think the reason for the controversy here is that some of us like to focus on the best, others on the worst, some others on the vehicles and technical side and rest on all or any combination. Reading Beevors books about Berlin and Stalingrad, you learn a lot about the suffering of civilians as well as bloody deeds, warcrimes and collateral damage. The same goes for watching movies like Die Gustloff and Katyn. The main thing I dont understand is why its ok to adress allt these things in movies and books but not in miniature? For me I sometimes want to portray heroic actions, tragical accidents, crimes, horror, fantasy, neglected subjects or just some kind of craft for the beuti of itself. But I do see it odd to just portray military vehicles with smiling soldiers and lots of killmarks and neglect or deny the other side of the medal. Cheers

Folks, It appears this thread has now, well actually has long since, gone off topic. Unless you have something specific to say about the Firestorm casualties, I strongly suggest starting a new thread about the art form, casualties or whatever. Rudi

the figures look useful there will always be debate about these i guess but they are well scuplted I remember seeing a fallen solider lying underneath a blanket with his feet hanging out does anyone know who made the figure? Im not trying to be ignorent or offend someone I remember seeing it on a IDF diorama and Im intereasting in accuiring the figure ATB [/quote] why not make your own just use an old figure all you will see is the feet or maybe an arm depending how you place the blanket would be pretty simple to do plus save you money as long as any pieces of the body are accurate to yuor scene no one would know what the figure underneath was just a suggestion cheers simon

Ok, getting back on topic for a minute, this is a great set. I don't see them as insurgents/terrorists or civilians. To me they are just dead people. The diorama concept and imagination of the builder will ultimately decide the label that each viewer will no doubt mentally attribute to their own degree of satisfaction. As for graphic..nope, not physically or in concept, at least not to me. The bottom line is some people will always find it too graphic with others not enough. Your simply not going to please everybody. However, IMHO i'd like to say hats off to Firestorm for widening the diorama options and ideas with this set, however, what we as model makers now do with this new option is ultimately up to us.

Hi Ian ,does not the very nature of our hobby reflect the effects of conflict be it declared war, civil war,guerilla actions etc,the old adage springs to mind, you cant make an omlette without breaking eggs. To portray things as true to life as possible in one of the above circumstances might mean the showing of casualties wether they be military or civilian or as some else said animal and as long as it is done with feeling and good taste I dont see a problem.

E R R R R.............."Anyone fancy popping out for a pint if this thread is going to start up again?" Gary