Hi
I recently bought the Dragon M2/M2A1 halftrack and as loads of people have bought this recently and built it up as US I thought I might do mine slightly differently. Therefore I was wondering if any of these halftracks saw use with the British army in any theatre of operations at any time. Thanks. Nick

Someone must know, come on guys

My first urge is to say, no, they weren't used. Certainly they weren't supplied to the UK formally, I know that for sure. Somewhere there might be a photo of an M2 that has been found and incorporated into a Commonwealth unit, but you better work from that photo to build the vehicle as there are no "standards" to apply.

Paul

Ok, Thanks Paul, will try to find a commonwealth M2, if not it looks like it'll just have to be US, or maybe Russian. Nick

Right, I've found these pictures on the iwm photo collection when searching for 'half track' and they all have something to do with the british army. However I am not an expert on recognising models of half track therefore I would be gratreful if anyone could tell me if any of these are actually M2's or M2A1's:

First off, this one appears to have a large anti tank gun in the back so I am assuming this is not an M2, it is being deploed for Op. Torch:

This is during Op Epsom 1944

This was in July 1944

This was 26 April 1945

This is a victory parade in 1945

This is the invasion of Italy in 1943

This is near the river Foglia in September '44
Thanks for your help. Nick

Hunnicutt gives 10 (ten) M2s/M2A1s handed to GB through Lend-Lease.
HTH

I'm afraid that most of the halftracks supplied to the Brits (as well as the Russians) were Internationals, not Whites. The very visible differences are the front fenders (open on the sides behind the wheels), the back corners of the cargo boxes (radius instead of square corners), and instruments on the dash (standard generic instruments instead of the two large White production gauges). They also had a different engine (overhead valve International instead of flathead White).

Norm Samuelson

Hi guys
@ Claude, do you have any pics etc of these 10?
@ Norm, how easy would it be to convert the DML halftrack to an International?? Cheers. Nick
PS, still would like to know if any of the above photos are of M2's or M2A1's
Nick

To accurately convert the DML M2/M2A1 to an international would be an enormous job. The M5 and M9 more closely resembled the M3 regardless.

The M5 and M9 has another very visible distinguishing feature bey9ond what Norm kindly listed. The shutters for the driver's compartment viewports are on the inside armor. You'll notice that on the M2/M2A1 and M3 series that the viewport shutters are on the external part of the armored windscreen and door armor.

While the M9 was the lend lease version of the M2, it closely resembled the M5 (which resembled the M3), save for internal layout.

As for your IWM pics, I'd say these are the variants:

1) T30 Howitzer motor carriage
2) unknown: either M9 or M5 (note the driver's side viewport)
3) unknown: too far away
4) either M9 or M5
5) either M9 or M5
6) Looks to be an M3 half track. (note the externally mounted viewport shutter)
7) either M9 or M5 : most likely M5 (note the rounded rear corners)

As a matter of fact, the pic of the halftrack unloading on the dock, with the LST's (I think) in the background, and the A/T gun in the foreground, appears to be an M2.
If you can get the Squadron books ("US Halftracks at War" and "Walkaround"), they both have good photos and info regarding the differences between the White and International halftracks. The Hunnicutt book also has great info, but it's a little pricey and can be hard to find (it's also the best ultimate reference).
I've heard that there is a conversion available, but also that it's not very well done. Not sure who makes it, so I don't have to hurt anyones feelings.
I'm sure that a conversion could be done. I'm not sure how hard the fenders and rear corners would be; the dash would actually be easy using Evergreen sheet, a Waldron punch set, and Archer instruments.
As long as the hood is closed, most would never know about the engine. I've also read that the front tires should be a different size (diameter), but again, unless it's side by side, I doubt that most would know.
If you look at your photos attached, you will see the difference between the front fenders. This is actually the most oustanding visual difference.
Good luck, let us know if you go for the conversion. It would be an interesting change.
Norm

Hi Roy
Thanks for the help, and such a quick response! Looks like I will have to collect some reference and wait with crossed fingers for DML to announce an M3!! Thanks for identifying the iwm photos. Nick

Ok, I have just found this site . Should be useful. Nick

I do know my dad used an American half track as a general recovery vehicle while he was in the REME, but as to which model it was I cant help I will ask when he comes back from Turkey. after thought it was during the 1960's

Hi Darren
1960's is even better as stated in the original post I want to do something different (+ I am a fan of modern british armour! ) So if you could ask your Dad that would be great. Nick

Just been doing some more googling and found this
Could this be what you dad was using ?? Nick

Sorry, the bodywork extends to the rear of the chassis, making it definitely not an M2.

acav out

Hi guys
@Norm thanks for your help with re to refernece etc. Sorry, somehow Imissed your response!
@ acav, oh well, there are others on there which could be done (ie the m5's or m9's)
I think for now I will probably just build it up as a US M2 and wait till an M3 is released if I am going to convert to an M5 or M9, but if I do you guys will definetly know about it!
Nick

At the time he was using the half track he was attaced to the 13th/18th hussars and they were equipped with Cents and in the process of switching to Chieftain

My father has confirmed the picture you have provided is accurate, however he states that nearly every vehicle was individual in terms of lay out due to the fact the REME had the tools and know how to make it suit there needs. I asked him to read the write up on the site you got the picture from and he said he never saw one towing a 1 ton trailer as any equipment or spares they needed was carried in a separate vehicle in order to increase the comfort level.

Just for a laugh he told me how they spent 4 days and 3 nights in a pub in Germany after a cent broke down about a quarter of a mile from the pub. They would have got away with it as well if a sergeant had not wondered what was taking so long to fix and found a pair of trousers and boots stuffed with paper poking out from under the tank. Sergeants being clever sods found them in the pub inside 30 minutes. He said the being caught was followed by quite a few long days and nights working in the workshops.

Another story he told was how he ordered a wheel bearing for the half track, it took 3 months for his spare to arrive and when he went to get it from the stores there was a huge crate waiting for him. When opened it contained the entire rear drive section plus tracks, it seems they didn’t just send out wheel bearings.

Hi Darren
Thanks for getting your father to do that. Always amusing to hear old soldiers stories like those! Do you mind me asking where your father was based at the time? Cheers. Nick

Hi Nick,
DML have in fact already announced an M3/M3A1, its slated for release Q3 this year, so pretty much any month now.

HTH

Excellent news!

Detmold according to the regts history and i know he went to Aden with them in 67

Ok, thanks Darren. Nick

Glad to be the bearer of good news....