I feel like I've won the lottery Jeremy. A few years ago I found the few pics I have of your vehicles, I can't remember what site they were on but somebody else paid attention to these HMMWV's because as Gino P. Quintiliani said in his post Echelon decals has included the Misfits icon in one decal sheet (Gino provides link).
I know ISAF is still in Afghanistan with HMMV's but other than that I don't know, or haven't seen any current pictures of them.
If you do find any pictures, even of the landscape you worked in I'd be very interested indeed. Did all four vehicles travel together all of the time?
If you'd like bigger images of the ones I have I can email them to you seperately, they are a little bigger than the ones I've posted on this site.
This is a great photo, fantastic details, thanks so much.
Bill

Bill,

A lot of the information is in fact in the public domain, especially in gun magazines (NOT the handgun or hunting ones, but the combat rifle magazines found in bookstores). You won't really find such information on the internet because most times the internet doesn't pay the author. Ironically, gun magazines don't cover solely guns; they also have articles from and about soldiers, the military, armored vehicles, combat lessons, conflicts, tests, future programs, military authors, etc. Gun magazines also sometimes cover helicopters, airplanes, artillery, shotguns, sniper rifles, anti-tank rockets, etc! Just because it's a combat gun magazine, don't mistake it for solely covering small arms.

Bear in mind that a lot of the guns covered in the magazines aren't used by the military or SWAT police so buying the magazine is a whole other story/debate. Furthermore, just because it's found in a gun magazine doesn't mean that the gun exists in model form, be it 1/35 or 120mm. Another issue that I find sometimes annoying is that many gun magazines print in B/W instead of color.

Dco 2-504 Oct 2003. Notice the lack of any armor except for the gun shield on the turret. These gun shields weighed so much that it was almost impossible to traverse the gun if the truck was on anything but flat ground.
Also notice the lack of a spare tire or any extra fuel cans strapped to the tail gate.

We first "painted" our trucks with mud for two reasons. First for camoflage purposes and second we were told that vehicles that were tan in color were being hit by less IED's than green vehicles. Once winter came and the mud washed off, most trucks just stayed a dusty green camo color afterwards.

William, 95% of the time all 4 vehicles traved together, plus we could not leave base with less than 3 vehicles. More pictures to follow.

Jeremy
Thanks for posting the mud camo picture,this would prove an interesting modeling challenge. I have searched the web site for 2bn 504 PIR and other more general sites but without much luck regarding these particular vehicles. What I really appreciate is your observations regarding the armor /weight issues of the vehicles you were in. If the chicken plate hindered the rotation of the weapons ring then those armored glass shield must be near impossible. In the other thread (M1114) we are talking about the evolution of the M1114, I'd be interested to hear your opinion about those issues.
I look forward to your next image installment.
Bill

Afghanistan terrain

William, The army finally did something right and installed a "turret crank handle" which makes it very easy and quick to turn the turret. These only come on the "new" M1114 as far as I know. As far as the M1114 is concerned one thing which it cannot do is have the TOW Anti -Tank weapon mounted on it which is one major drawback. Even though the US is not presently fighting a war that involves enemy tanks, what about years from now? China has a huge armor force to contend with.

The "base model" M1114 is suited well for Afghanistan and the current enemy threat. As you can see on the picture on the top, the M1114 in A-stan has to negotiate much worse terrain than in Iraq so I think they should be left as light and "compact" as possible. Plus Missions in A-stan generally last much longer, so you better bring as much fuel, water, food and ammo as possible which ads more weight to the vehicle. Most of the "roads" we traveled on were made for a vehicle 2/3 the size of a HMMWV. Sure, the extra armor would be nice to have on the vehicles in A-stan but It would have been harder and sometimes impossible to go the places we were required to.

One other thing which you cannot do (as fas as I know) is Air drop the M1114 because of the weight issue. The 82nd airborne still practices doing this on a regular period.

Thats interesting that you can't airdrop a 1114. I wonder what the 82nd's going to do when it is fielded with the MRAPs.

Jeff

Jeff
I had to look up MRAP's and here's the video.
http://www.forceprotection.net/news/video.html

Jeremy
It is great to get a personal, first hand view of the landscape and issues you confronted. Some of the web images I've seen show Afghanistan to be a beautiful landscape, very much like the Canadian Arctic where I work. When you are out in the country for long periods of time do you tent and camouflage the vehicles every night ?
Keep the images coming, they are a great inspiration for model ideas.
Thanks
Bill

Traveling through the "Gardez pass". This a road that runs between the citys of khowst and Gardez, also called "Ambush alley" by the russians, looking at the terrain you can see why.

To answer your question william, we never used camoflage netting for concealment purposes, it was never really necessary or practical. I do know of a platoon that took a cut up camo net and permanently hung it of the sides of there hmmwv's though. Think I might have a picture around somewhere.

Jeremy
The photographs really show what the landscape is like, lots of places for Bin and the boys to hang out. I went on Google Earth and wandered around Afghanistan and it is vast and complex. It must have been literally looking for needles in the haystacks.
I just received the decal sheet by Echelon which has the Misfits HMMWV's on it. My images have the caption "White Devils" but the decals call the group "Devils in baggy pants" do you know which (if not both) is correct? It also mentions that there was one vehicle with a MK19 and the other three had 50's. Was there a hierarchy amongst the 4 vehicles, like the highest ranking officer was in the front with a and I quote Jeff here.

"What it is called FBCB2 or Force XXI Battle Command, Brigade-and-Below. In laymens terms, its the internet for the battlefield. It incorporates wireless technology, email, text messaging, and a graphic interface to allow maneuver units to transmit data in real-time back and forth. Its really cool. If a unit is in contact, in real-time they can tell the rest of their team where the fire is coming from and the leader can issue orders to defeat the threat. You will usually find one of these in nearly every leadership vehicle from the squad leader to the brigade commander. I think almost all stryker's have one, since they hold a squad each. But for a humvee since about 3-4 humvees hold a squad, you'll find one in about 4 vehicles have one. Jeff"

The reason I ask is that if I build one vehicle I'd like it to be accurate. So if the vehicle with the 50 cal (or MK19) is the lead vehicle it would have either the FBCB2 or like James Cahil explained in the M1114 thread a "vehicle intercommunication system".
Do you remember which vehicle was the lead vehicle?
One more question. The antenna on the hood of the HMMWV in "downtown Kandihar" (your image this thread), what is the function of this antenna.
Many thanks Jeremy

The cadets and I used to have a joke for questions like this, "It's METT-TC dependent." METT-TC (god, lets see if I can remember this...), stands for Mission, Enemy, Time, Troops - Time Civilians (I'm sure I mixed the Ts up). What it means is its an acrynom for a leader to consider how to proceed. This is when the decision on how to do something isn't clearly defined and by considering how your decision would affect those six things, you make an appropriate judgement.

My point, and it took me a year of training to realize this, is that many times - in fact most time - there is no right answer that you'd find in a field manual, they are guidelines and depending on your situation and how much experience you have you know how much or little to rely on those guidelines.

An FBCB2 - also called a Blue Force Tracker or BFT - will generally be found in trucks assigned to leadership - squad or section leader, platoon leader, platoon sergeant, company leader, first sergeant, etc. A leader can ride in any vehicle that he wants because, well, he's the leader. But since his job requires him to make decisions based on information, if it were me, I'd want to be in the place where I get the most information. I wouldn't be suprised to find out if nearly every humvee is receiving them so that everyone knows where everything is.

As for the location in a convoy, again its "METT-TC dependent" Sometimes there are standard operating procedures that a unit makes that covers convoy positions (like platoon leader near the front, platoon sergeant near the back for complete coverage), sometimes there isn't. It really just depends. Again if it were me, I was taught "lead from the front, but not the very front."

You can tell a vehicle that has a BFT because there is a transmitter/receiver placed on the outside of the vehicle. Right now it is on the right rear of the armored "turtleback" just in front of the radio antenna. It looks like a cube with a short cylinder on top. I've got photos, but you can see it in Jeremy's second photo on the other page. Some earlier vehicles had them in a mount on the top of the windshield directly above the support that divides the two window.

Jeff

Jeff
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I kinda figured that on long patrols like Jeremy was on the situation remains "fluid" as far as standard operating procedure. I'm trying to work out the elements that differentiate between similar vehicles, something that would make them unique, so it could be modeled as a specific vehicle as opposed to a generic one..
The tip about the BFT is a good one, something I hadn't really noticed before. I have attached the image that I assume you are talking about with an arrow to the transmitter receiver, is that correct?

A while ago I saw a HMMWV with a long 5 foot tall by 5 inch in diameter approx. (like a pipe) antenna of sorts that some one said I think was a jammer. Could that antenna be situated in the near quarter of a "turtle back"?
Thanks for the help here, it is an interesting learning curve.
Bill

Basically what I tell everyone is to find a photo of a single vehicle or a convoy and just mimick that, so that you can't go wrong.




Yep. I've got some better pictures of it, and I'll post them tomorrow-ish.

Jeff

Found this interesting SF HMMWV in Afghanistan. I've never seen a SF HMMWV with the armored turret AND a lounge chair in the back, could be a nice variation for a DUMVEE model. It looks like armored doors, can some body identify what model of HMMWV?

They are uparmored as far as I can tell (looking at the bumper). Can't tell specifically but I'd bet its an M1165, a four-man cab truck. I heard somewhere, but haven't been able to confirm it that these guys are able to get their trucks custom...tailored. I wonder where you'd find an office chair in 1/35 though...

Jeff

British Land Rovers in the back...you can tell by the passenger MG being on the right side and the driver on the left.

There's one included in Blast Models BL35040K set :


Frenchy

That almost looks like a racing seat for a car. The way the shell is molded gives me that impression. You could probobly search out and find some cheap race car model seats.

-Mike

I'm going to actually say it might just be a newe GMV. Older GMV's were modified M1025s, new GMVs are modified M1113 ECV. You said you have the Humvee in Iraq book, check out the GMV section and see if you agree.

Jeff

As promised, here is a couple shots of the BFT antenna.

Current mount


Early mount:


Jeff

Jeff
None of the M1113's in the book have armored turrets. The doors on the 1113's (In the Concord HMMWV's In Iraq) are X doors but the glass has been enhanced. In the image above the inner doors appear to be armored do you agree? On page 41 there is a similar rear view which betrays nothing other than the antenna mounts. The one antenna is above the rear light like on earlier versions and in the above photo the right antenna is on the cargo box and the left seems to be in the regular spot, which doesn't mean a thing, it is not structural. Far be it from me though to be able to differentiate between the myriad versions of this vehicle based upon an open door. Since the photograph is relatively current I'd venture to guess that it is more likely some version of the up armoured HMMWV than the earlier 1025 GMV.
Does anyone else see something that betrays its type?

Jeff thanks for the detail shots of the antenna, I appreciate your rummaging through thousands of HMMWV pictures for these.
In an exhausting search through Flickr I too found ONE picure on the antenna AND the D ring enhanced for those to see clearly.



About the SF HMMWV image above. I extracted the meta data from the image and it is this.

070410-A-9834L-006
SANGIN, Afghanistan - American and British soldiers take a tactical pause during a combat patrol in the Sangin District area of Helmand Province April 10. (U.S. Army Photo by Spc. Daniel Love)
It was taken in April 2007 (shot with a Nikon D2H) so I doubt if SF is still using the M1025 but who knows these things?
I would LOVE to see another current SF M???? in Afghanistan.
Bill

Well from my time at Ft. Polk, I know the 82nd have had those secondary mounts for at least 10 years. There was a push within 2ACR(L) to do something similar but it got squashed for numerous reasons, one being that there was no provision for a T&E mechanism.

Some of the reasoning behind it is that they allow for covering the rear arc without having to traverse the turret. Another is that the Mk-19 has a minimum arming range and safe range which makes it useless while conducting mounted patrols in most urban areas. And since the Mk-19 and the M2's can be swapped from one truck to another they put those additional mounts on all of them as opposed to just the Mk-19 trucks. Another thing, it gives the gunner a secondary weapon to fire incase of a jam.

I agree that its probably a more current GMV, up the uparmored type. Those aren't X doors in the picture (the one here not in the book). The only way to be fully sure is to look at the data plate next to the driver's door.

Jeff

Keep in mind that SF pretty much has custom made stuff to include their vehicles. So those doors are probably unique to what the SF uses as opposed to something that's used by everyone else.