Dear all,

Need some help on this latest YoungMiniature late war SS figure in the Eastern front apparently.

It should be leather jacket but is there any other alternative on the trousers. I think the box art is an Italian Camo. Any help and reference will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Allan

Hi;
I'm no expert, but it seems reasonable to me that troops would mix and match uniforms parts and it was a regular occurance. Especially late in the war when German stores were harder to come by, it's even more likley that you'd find someone dressed in whatever uniform they could beg, borrow or steal. It's also reasonable that certain elite units would be encouraged to wear whatever was best for the occassion while in the field.

Plus, let's not discount the 'I wanna look cool' factor. He's sporting a Russian PPSh so why not Gucci pants.....



Bob

May I reccommend Googling German SS Uniforms to see if you find one you prefer. You might even find some real good swatches to help color matching and design.

Allan from the image the trousers apear to be italian combat trousers due to the left leg thigh pocket.I am not entirely sure but if they are then they would only come in Italian cammo colour.If you want to change the cammo you will have to alter the trousers and remove the pocket.This is just my thought and someone with more knowledge may be able to give better info.

Steve

Dear Allan

Once you've removed the pocket - as per Steve's suggestion - you could give him matching leather trews; not unusual if he's wearing the U-Boat leather jacket.

If you stick with the Italian camo trousers I suggest you research the pattern - as the pattern shown in the box art looks odd (and un-Italian) to me (IMHO).

Cheers

Karol

When the Bayeux museum was open (I understand its closed now) they had some weird and wonderful battalion made stuff like a pair of half trousers in oakleaf. When I say half trousers they were just a trouser front. I've seen pics of SS wearing tunics based on the M36 made out of oakleaf material so realistically its possible someone somewhere would have had trousers made from them with the map pocket. Food for thought???

karl is right in what he is saying,cloathing was sometimes tailor made to the individuals requests,I think this more common with the SS.I am not sure if the trousers shown on the figure were made by the germans using captured italian cammo cloth or whether they were captured cloathing made by the italian army.The leg pocket looks unusual for german design.

Steve

[quote]Dear Allan

If you stick with the Italian camo trousers I suggest you research the pattern - as the pattern shown in the box art looks odd (and un-Italian) to me (IMHO).
[quote]

The figure's trousers could represent Hungarian camo cloth.
According to Europa Militaria No. 18 "Waffen SS Camouflage Uniforms & Post War Derivatives", Hungarian camo was very similar to Italian and the SS served with Hungarian troops on the Eastern Front.
Seeing that the figure is holding a PPSh 41, it makes sense that the odd looking Italian camo could be of Hungarian origin.
Cheers

jjumbo

The figure seems a little odd to me - he's wearing the U-Boat leather jacket, which was 'quite' common among SS units in Normandy; there are several photos in the Bundesarchiv of a HitlerJugend PzIV crew totally outfitted in this spiffy little number (said photos reproduced in the long out of print 'Panzers in NW Europe' WW2 Photo Album by Bruce Quarrie, ISBN: 0850593220).

The Italian pattern camo trousers also fit the Normandy scenario - as previously suggested, you could remove the pocket and paint them as leather, but maybe you'd have to put some work into the folds and creases, because leather doesn't behave the same as cloth.
Alternatively, paint them plain reed green - the reed green Panzer uniform pants came with a patch pocket on the thigh as per the figure...

It's the PPsH41 that bugs me - troops on the OstFront loved 'em because of their magazine capacity, ruggedness and ready supply of ammo; seems to me this last would have been a problem in Normandy.
I've never seen any photo evidence of this weapon on the Western Front - not to say it 'never' happened, but it's pretty unlikely.

So, nice figure, credible uniform combination, unlikely personal weapon.

IMHO, that is.

$0.02

acav out

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback , I know I can rely on the forum. Now I have abundant options to decide where to go forward.... If I attached the T-34 turret, I guess got to go witht Hungarian front end...

JJumbo,
Do you have a scan copy of the Hungarian Camo or know any website I can find the pattern? Thanks

Hey Allan

Sometimes it seems like I can barely operate a computer.

I don't have a scanner so I can't send you scan from my copy of the book.

But here's a site with one of the photos that's in the book.

http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/en_00082.php

Hope that helps

Cheers

jjumbo

Update:

Hey Allan,

Here's another page on the same site.

http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/en_00133.php

If this is an Eastern Front figure it must be very late, like "Spring Awakening", the attempt to relieve Budapest. The combination of the black U Boat leathers and Italian trousers is typical of "LAH" & "HJ" in Normandy (they were in the same Korps). The Italian camo cloth was booty brought back from Italy following "LAH"s posting there in 1943 following the failure @ Kursk. The U boat leathers were prevalent in 12 SS Panzer Regiment (although there are photos taken in Normandy of personnel from the Korps heavy tank battalion, SS sPzAbt 101/501, wearing them). This mixture with the PPSH would place the figure squarely in early 1945, probably in Hungary. I agree with acav, you could paint the trousers as reed green twill if you wanted. Most of the uniforms made up from the Italian or for that matter Hungarian camo cloth were styled on German items, however there was the odd abberation, like the camo overalls worn by some "HJ" grenadiers, as modelled in the DML Ardenne Abbey set.

Hi John - thanks for the link

Hi Steve, again thanks for the comfirmation and sharing your understanding

Allan

Allan,
Try this site, you will not be sorry.
Kamouflage.net

Thanks Steve