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SS Camo Berlin 1945
ElliottC91
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: April 29, 2007
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Posted: Monday, July 30, 2007 - 08:51 AM UTC
I'm planning a dio with the dragon t-34/85 with bedspring armor and th ss gen 2 ambush! figures. The box says 1944 but im sure that they could be quite accurately used for the battle for berlin. The boxart shows them painted in the dark brown/orange autumn pattern smocks and tunics, would I need to change this for a Berlin setting? I know April/May would be spring/summer pattern but by the end of the war correct pattern uniforms were becoming scarce, I just want to know whether an elite division such as the SS would have been resupplied with the appropriate smocks and tunics or whether it would be realistic to see four SS soldiers wearing the autumn/winter pattern in berlin. If changes need to be made would this be possible seeing as one of the figures is wearing the reversible parka which i would imginge would not be reversed to show a summer pattern.
Thanks
Elliott
Jamesite
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 03:24 AM UTC
Im no expert, but I thought all/most of the SS uniforms were reversible with the spring pattern on one side and autumn on the other?
To be honest, if fighting in Berlin I imagine the autumn pattern would offer better camouflage than the greener spring pattern (not much use in an urban environment).
If I were you, I'd think more along the lines of what the soldiers would do than what time of year it is. If I think that an autumn pattern is going to stand a better chance of keeping me alive then I wouldn't care less about what the correct time of year is!

James
Jamesite
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 03:25 AM UTC
Oh and by the way, as the cut of the uniforms were the same (I think)regardless of the camouflage pattern it wouldn't matter which scheme you opted to paint.

James
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: August 27, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 04:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Im no expert, but I thought all/most of the SS uniforms were reversible with the spring pattern on one side and autumn on the other?
To be honest, if fighting in Berlin I imagine the autumn pattern would offer better camouflage than the greener spring pattern (not much use in an urban environment).
If I were you, I'd think more along the lines of what the soldiers would do than what time of year it is. If I think that an autumn pattern is going to stand a better chance of keeping me alive then I wouldn't care less about what the correct time of year is!

James


Most of the photos and videos that I've seen of the Berlin defenders shows them wearing uncamouflaged uniforms.
Camouflage uniforms designed for the fields and forests of Europe would not help conceal German troops in a city, much like the U.S. troops that wore woodland pattern utilities in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait early on in Desert Storm.
Field grey uniforms would make more sense in a bombed out and blasted urban setting.
I would imagine however, due to shortages, that you'd have seen every type and combination of uniform on SS troops in April and May 1945.
Overcoats, zeltbahns (1/4 shelters), smocks and all manner of tunics and pants, some with camouflage patterns, some without.
Depending on the weather, you may have seen the reversable winter parkas in use.
Cheers

jjumbo
SnakeEye
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Rodopi, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: June 23, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 08:59 AM UTC
You can see in this photo how field green was effective in a ruined city.
It is from the movie The Downfall.
Hohenstaufen
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 09:14 AM UTC
I'd go along with John Jukes, apart from remnants of Charlemagne & some other foreign SS legions, the main SS units in Berlin would be the guard units. I don't know if they would be issued with camo uniforms anyway, & they might still retain the smarter 1940 model tunics & marching boots. The reversible winter uniform mentioned above was reversible to white - I doubt that this would be considered effective camouflage in a city! The smocks were reversible from spring to autumn pattern, but photos show that they were worn in mix & match patterns anyway. The foreign SS troops might wear the "pea-pattern" M1944 uniform, either full suits or combined with field grey items.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 09:29 AM UTC
I'd mix whatever you fancy, but with reversible camouflage smocks I'd keep the brown/ autumn side out. (For reversible camo/ white I'd kep the camo side out.) Also remember that you could use some items in Leibermuster, a generic pattern that was to replace all Waffen SS and Wehrmacht camo patterns.
See fe:
http://www.powstanie-warszawskie-1944.ac.pl/leibermuster.htm

http://www.powstanie-warszawskie-1944.ac.pl/tarnung2.htm

This pattern was very rare though.
Jamesite
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United Kingdom
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'd mix whatever you fancy, but with reversible camouflage smocks I'd keep the brown/ autumn side out. (For reversible camo/ white I'd kep the camo side out.) Also remember that you could use some items in Leibermuster, a generic pattern that was to replace all Waffen SS and Wehrmacht camo patterns.
See fe:
http://www.powstanie-warszawskie-1944.ac.pl/leibermuster.htm

http://www.powstanie-warszawskie-1944.ac.pl/tarnung2.htm

This pattern was very rare though.


I read that the Leibermuster camo (which incidently was supposed to use special dye's that absorb light to aid the camouflage effect) never actually made it to front line surface due to the end of the war, and if it did would have been super-rare.
Nothing to stop you using it though I suppose.
However, would agree fully with the other points Marc makes, some good advice there.

James
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:46 PM UTC
James,

If you follow the 2nd link, and scroll down you'll see a pic taken at the end of the war. At least two of the soldiers are wearing Leibermuster. Ther's a pic of captured german solodiers in the Schiffer Wehrmacht camo book, with one of the soldiers wearing a Leibermuster winterparka IIRC.
There also exists a color pic taken at the end of the war with soldiers wearing this pattern.

I do agree it was very rare though.
Jamesite
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 03:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

James,

If you follow the 2nd link, and scroll down you'll see a pic taken at the end of the war. At least two of the soldiers are wearing Leibermuster. Ther's a pic of captured german solodiers in the Schiffer Wehrmacht camo book, with one of the soldiers wearing a Leibermuster winterparka IIRC.
There also exists a color pic taken at the end of the war with soldiers wearing this pattern.

I do agree it was very rare though.


I stand corrected!
That site seems to be a good source of information, shame its in Polish and I cant read it!

Cheers for the heads up!

James
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