Greetings,

After being out of action for a month and a half - recovering from a heart attack, but hey, I quit smoking cold turkey - I'm turning my attention to the project I'd begun before being rudely interrupted.

I've started a M7 and will be depicting it in a dug-in position. 99% of photos I've seen show the M7 covered in various fashion with camo nets suspended on poles and so forth. My question is about accuracy vs. modeling, that is, to show the way it really was, most of the vehicle will be covered with the netting which means most of the work done will also be covered and may look as though I copped-out and didn't detail the Priest.

I'm not sure which way to go on this. Any thoughts?

Barry

Why muck about with dozens of tiny, hard to see minor details when the whole affair is going to be covered up with camo nets anyway? Stick to what's important, give er a really nice paint job and get the surrounding details right and its all good. Other than yourself who do you really need to impress anyway?

If its a fixed position, the crew would want to camoflauge their position to keep from being spotted from the air. If you don't make the camo net completely covered, you are able to see in.

Your other option is a temporary position. To prevent themselves from getting fired back on, many artillery crews shoot and then move before they get a counterstrike.

Jeff

Glad to see you return to health, and bounce back from the heart attack Barry.
Do what the doctors tell you.

I'm with Mark, if everything is covered with mud, and nets, why waste time doing it to the nines.

Glad to hear your feeling better and congrats on the no smoking, not an easy thing to do.

Basically it's your model, do what you feel is necessary and fits your wallet.

Personally I try to at least add everything that might be seen, even if I'm going to put second armor tracks welded over it. You just never know what might peek thru. From some of the photos I've seen the netting isn't laying right on the Vech but a good 5 to 10 foot above, need that working room, especially if it's a dug in position. So some of the most obvious things should be able to be seen. I also hate to add the fact that if they went to all the trouble to dig in and cover the position with a camo net there probably won't be much in the way of stowage left on it to cover those minor details.

But it is your model and diorama, you got to please yourself.

Good luck,
Bob

Hi Dave and guys,

To be believable, I'm going to try and figure out how to do those camo nets - the ones with the squiggly bits woven in - and make them look realistic, which I don't think is gonna be easy. But hey, something new and different to try!

I'm being a good boy and doing what the doc is telling me. I've got a few more dioramas to do before I check out. Of course, that just means more junk for my wife to throw out, but not too much I can do about that.

Barry

Glad to see your getting back into the swing of things.

I took a trip down memory lane and looked at your published projects and you have a knack for dramatic artisitc realistic projects. You have to (as you mentioned) work both in.
If you are going to cover a whole piece then I would do a partial job on it to give the impression that detail is there. Holes in the net you can peek through, but not 100% of the covered area.
My other thought was to do one side of the netting being repaired or rolled up for reloading or maintenance and that way you give the viewer the cover and the inside.

Barry,
Glad to hear that you are on the road to recovery.
RE: the camo netting-
Have you thought about cheese cloth and actually weaving little strips of cloth or paper in after everything has been dyed to a base color?

Anyhow, glad all is okay with you....missed you at DragonX07 this past weekend.
Cheers,
Charles

Gday Baz
Glad to hear you are on the mend...
I would go a scene where the M7 is dug-in, but with the scrim camo nets in the process of being deployed. This way you can show all relevant detail whilst staying true to life.
Whatever, I'm certain you'll do it justice
Cheers
Brad

Barry- I've been out of it for a while so I missed your MI, glad to see you're on the mend & have gotten shut of the 'evil weed'.
Having been a great fan of yours for many years (yes, I STILL get misty-eyed to recall the fate of "Bracketed!"), I am of course in full favor of yougoing down to the last nut, bolt, & widget. I'm of the same mind as Scott, with the idea of having at least one side or rear of the net rolled back for reload...or with your amazing ability to mimic the human form in motion, perhaps the Track Co. directing his crew in the digging of some prepared positions to protect against counterbattery fire...
Just random thoughts. Not trying to give the master pointers, just Ideas on what I might do if I had, well, 1/8 of your talent...


Barry, while I & the others hope to have you around for inspiration for our grandkids, pleas do not let that lovely Lady toss out your masterpieces in the unlikely event that you depart sooner. If you've still got my address, have her send 'em on postage due. I'll find good homes for them with Vet groups, schools, etc. Talent like yours requires a legacy...

Semper Fi,
LD

Charles , LD, Scott, and all,

This diorama is going to be based upon the crew having been in a static position for awhile - lots of empty ammo tubes, ration cans/crates, etc., tarp slung from M7 for sleeping underneath, stuff like that. I've already got the figures 3/4 done, a guy shaving, one washing his face from a canvas bucket, a guy in his sleeping bag, a couple guys making morning coffee.

So, I'll need to have the camo net(s) in place, which is fine, assuming I can make it look believable. Somewhere I have one of Hudson & Allen's camo net (with the scrim already in there) packages. I never opened it, but it looks a bit out of scale (too big). I'll look for it this weekend and see if it will be of any use.

I also have a TM of how to use the netting, which will help of course. I do like the idea of having the netting "bleed" off the base at the rear. That way the M7 will be more visible from that side and will allow the base to be kept reasonably tight.

Thanks everyone, you've given me some sound advice. Now I just have to build the thing!

LD - I'm a bit overwhelmed by your enthusiasm, but I'm afraid I don't hold my work in the esteem that you do. I mean, I try to do the best I can, but there are so many others who are much better. I can see how their work should be preserved, but my stuff is like mid-grade gas: not regular, and not premium.....

Barry

Oh no, you mean the black and white one featured in Lynn Kessler's book. What happened to it?

I'm usually not one to argue but Barry, your dioramas have always been first class cutting edge pieces. Myself and I'm sure many others have been inspired greatly by your dioramas! You set a high standard.




I believe it was totally destroyed either coming to or going from a show. Perhaps by an airline? (don't remember the details) Luckily, many detailed online photos exist.

Cheers,
Charles

Hi Barry. Firstly, sorry to hear about your health problems .. hopefully you are feeling much better. Sometimes a scare like this can be a wake-up call, and have a more positive effect than is iniatially realised. Secondly, dont under-estimate your work ... you´ve produced some amazing and memorable models that spring to mind immediately ... maybe a more realistic measurement of quality!!

I had this same idea some years ago (never took it further than building the M7 as I already completed 3 sherman based models at that time, I got so fed-up, I sold it unpainted) and had the same thoughts. I believe the camo nets are a must, but so is good details. Artistic license should also be incorporated to show the scene but also see the details. A figure or 2 holding up the netting to recieve some shells sounds feesable. The nets can be in a bad state of repair, and the details will attract the viewer to try to see inside, through any strategicly placed holes.
So in my mind its one or the other .... either make it completely invisible and concentrate on the surroundings, or else give it your best shot and plan some way to view it ... this is where your vision and skills will play their part and make this scene a "Barry Garzo model", and not just another tank with some ammo laying around.

You´ve probably seen this pic (I bought the AFV Club tracks and fancied using the track extenders .. somebody sent me this pic as a reference)



Good luck with the build .. suddenly interested in this typeof project again

Just had this thought - how about a figure sneaking a peek out from under the net to check the weather?

Glad you are doing better. How about a scene where the crew are getting ready to move out after a long stay. That way you could have the net in the process of being removed...

Barry -

Welcome back, glad all worked out with your recent health concerns.

My two cents, I like the idea of the M7 being under the camo netting, with a crew member poking his head out to see if it's all clear to get on the move.

Good luck with however you decide to go, look forward to the pictures!

Cheers!

Tim

Hi gang,

Ok, back from the holiday weekend. Thanks everyone for your suggestions and expressions of support. I read every one of the posts and will take every suggestion seriously. I've always thought if someone takes the time to respond in a forum like this, the least I can do is acknowledge the effort.

I looked for the H&A netting but of course couldn't find it. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.....

Regarding the demise of "Bracketed" - it was completely obliterated by UPS when shipped back to my home from California (I took it to the Dragon show that year). So, beware......

That experience has placed a quarantine on my model show sojourns i.e. if I can't drive it, it don't go. I found out about a show near Chicago in October, so I'll be going to that one since it's only about an hour and a half from my house. It's the Military Miniature Society of Illinois. Anybody else going to be there?

Regards,
Barry

So Barry: You see that I am not the only one who holds your projects in High esteem. So in addition to taking the suggestions seriously, please do take our awe & praise as genuine. Perhaps in your view you don't always have the "Best In Show", butr there's always that extra SOMETHING, your ability to come at the most commonplace scene from a different perspective, That makes your work that much more memorable.
I hate to sound as if I'm "Sucking Up" here, but I can honestly say that no one has inspired me to look critically at my own work and try to add that 'extra dimension' as much as you have since, well, I became aware of Shep Paine & Francios Verlinden's work in the early 80's. Honestly.
So just do 'that thing you do', & I'm sure it will be a masterpiece for the generations...
In Grateful Support,
Rob (LD)