Hi folks,
today during work, I was surprised as I saw, what was standing on a companies ground. The shield looks like sovietstyle but the muzzlebreak looks German. The same style like the Pak 40 and the Pz.Kpfw. IV. Also the color looks original.
I uploaded 2 photos on the kitmaker photogallery, please check it out.
I appriciate any clues for identify this type.
Thanks, Nils
Hosted by Darren Baker
Which type is it?
Panzerkommandant
Joined: November 02, 2006
KitMaker: 151 posts
Armorama: 150 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 02:50 AM UTC
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 06:13 AM UTC
I'm stumped on this one. Here are your pics :
Good luck !
Frenchy
Good luck !
Frenchy
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 06:45 AM UTC
Did the Germans not rebore some captured Russian 76mm guns to fit the German cartridges? Might this be one of them?
Panzerkommandant
Joined: November 02, 2006
KitMaker: 151 posts
Armorama: 150 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 07:10 AM UTC
Frenchi and Paul,
thanks for your replies.
Yeah, that could be, that this is a germanized soviet antitank gun.
Somelike the Zis or something.
Nils
thanks for your replies.
Yeah, that could be, that this is a germanized soviet antitank gun.
Somelike the Zis or something.
Nils
Navyelephant
Joined: February 09, 2006
KitMaker: 28 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 07:58 AM UTC
Gents
My suggestion is that this is a 17pdr on a 6 pdr carriage. The pointers for me are
A) the trails
B) rubber tyres
C) the shield: the 6 Pdr carriage had a double layer shield and I would suggest that the front layer has been removed. Has anybody made a 6pdr recently? If so they could confirm or reject my thoughts. In addition, the top of the shield has a wavy curve. This is a distinguishing feature of the 6pdr carriage
D) the muzzle break. The angle from which the photo has been taken makes this harder to judge but if it were taken from the right hand side I believe that this would give us more info.
E) the breach block looks like a sliding rather than screw beach. 6 and 17pdrs had slide breach blocks
I guess that this post will now attract a number of agee/disagree comments
My suggestion is that this is a 17pdr on a 6 pdr carriage. The pointers for me are
A) the trails
B) rubber tyres
C) the shield: the 6 Pdr carriage had a double layer shield and I would suggest that the front layer has been removed. Has anybody made a 6pdr recently? If so they could confirm or reject my thoughts. In addition, the top of the shield has a wavy curve. This is a distinguishing feature of the 6pdr carriage
D) the muzzle break. The angle from which the photo has been taken makes this harder to judge but if it were taken from the right hand side I believe that this would give us more info.
E) the breach block looks like a sliding rather than screw beach. 6 and 17pdrs had slide breach blocks
I guess that this post will now attract a number of agee/disagree comments
battery
Joined: March 19, 2004
KitMaker: 336 posts
Armorama: 112 posts
Posted: Friday, September 07, 2007 - 05:28 AM UTC
At first, I thought it might be a PAK 38, but nope I too think it's 17 pdr
The_Gunner
Joined: January 07, 2007
KitMaker: 22 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:31 PM UTC
Im not sure what it is either.
But the Muzzle break seems to be on wrong. The vent holes for the Muzzle break are verticle instead of horizontal. The gases would vent in to the ground and kick up a lot of debris.
But the Muzzle break seems to be on wrong. The vent holes for the Muzzle break are verticle instead of horizontal. The gases would vent in to the ground and kick up a lot of debris.
Finch
Joined: August 03, 2005
KitMaker: 411 posts
Armorama: 273 posts
Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Gents
My suggestion is that this is a 17pdr on a 6 pdr carriage. The pointers for me are
A) the trails
B) rubber tyres
C) the shield: the 6 Pdr carriage had a double layer shield and I would suggest that the front layer has been removed. Has anybody made a 6pdr recently? If so they could confirm or reject my thoughts. In addition, the top of the shield has a wavy curve. This is a distinguishing feature of the 6pdr carriage
D) the muzzle break. The angle from which the photo has been taken makes this harder to judge but if it were taken from the right hand side I believe that this would give us more info.
E) the breach block looks like a sliding rather than screw beach. 6 and 17pdrs had slide breach blocks
I guess that this post will now attract a number of agee/disagree comments
Yup
I don't have a clue what this gun is, but I wonder how the huge 17-pounder could be shoehorned onto a 6-pounder carriage. Both guns had a wavy-top shield, but that's definitely not the standard 17-pounder shield.
Also, almost all artillery under 155mm or so has a sliding breech, so that's not really a clue. Screw breeches are generally seen in 155mm and up, and the germans kept sliding blocks even at much higher calibers.
Anyway, I don't have a better answer.
JeepLC
Joined: June 20, 2007
KitMaker: 510 posts
Armorama: 469 posts
Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 03:42 PM UTC
I think Paul hit it on the head. It looks to be a German conversion of a Soviet AT carriage. I saw one of them in Germany a few years ago. I think in Garmische(sp) outide of Munich. I believe it looked to be a Pak 43 88mm on a 100mm Soviet carriage...?
Or it could be a junkyard mash-up.
-Mike
Or it could be a junkyard mash-up.
-Mike
DUBDUBS
Joined: September 29, 2005
KitMaker: 624 posts
Armorama: 456 posts
Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:45 PM UTC
Since the muzzle brake is on wrong, I'm going with a mash-up. Just combining parts from different incomplete cannons to make one look complete. But I could easily be wrong. It would be cool if it was a germanized soviet AT gun, and would make a cool model. 
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 05:11 PM UTC
There's nothing british about it. Look at the lightening holes in the wheel hubs -- definitely Soviet. The breech has no resemblance to a 17pdr QF either.
The breech reminds me of the 76.2cm field gun
The breech reminds me of the 76.2cm field gun
rol1512
Joined: November 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3 posts
Armorama: 2 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 02:35 AM UTC
Hi Nils,
I´m no expert either but for me it looks like a mixture of british 6-pdr carriage and german Pak 40 barrel and breech block turned upside down and some other parts missing. For a soviet gun the wheels look to be too small in diameter and their profile too wide.
To support my point of view please take a look at his website:
http://svsm.org/gallery/AT-guns
There you can compare most of the guns and their various parts in detail.
Cheers,
rol1512
I´m no expert either but for me it looks like a mixture of british 6-pdr carriage and german Pak 40 barrel and breech block turned upside down and some other parts missing. For a soviet gun the wheels look to be too small in diameter and their profile too wide.
To support my point of view please take a look at his website:
http://svsm.org/gallery/AT-guns
There you can compare most of the guns and their various parts in detail.
Cheers,
rol1512
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 03:36 AM UTC
The breech shares none of the cams and other mechanisms of the Pak 40. I still think it's soviet.
Panzerkommandant
Joined: November 02, 2006
KitMaker: 151 posts
Armorama: 150 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 04:03 AM UTC
Thanks guys!
Nils
Nils
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