hey,

what is the best kit to start with for a Iwo Jima Sherman?

did the marines use M4A2s, A3s or both?
what about the flame throwing Shermans? same case as the gun tank version?

thanks.

for some reason DML has no 75mm M4A3 and their A2 has the early turret with no loader's hatch which I'm not sure is correct.

what references did you use?

well, if thats the situation then a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do - I'll merge the DML A2 with Italeri's A3 turret and wading gear and add AFV Club tracks with duckbill...

whats your take on it? anything else I may need?

Don, thanks for the comprehensive reply! great pics too.
from your reply I take it that no early M4A2s were present on Iwo and that the late A2 differes from the A3 by the engine deck only (meaning it has the same front hull as the A3 with out the earlier versions direct vision blocks and the 56 degree slope), is that correct?

I may be better off just getting the Italeri kit then with aftermarket tracks and a basic PE set for headlight guards (and periscope guards if the specific tank I choose to model has them).

btw, what did you use for the side armor wood planks? plain 2 mm RC builders balsa? what did you use for painting and finishing it?

I'd go for the italeri Marines Sherman, as mentioned above, and the following:
- Formations wheels: F043 Late Welded Sherman Wheels (Jumbo Wheels)
- Bison decals: BD-35035 USMC SHERMANS - WW2 and Korea.
- steel chevron tracks with extended end connectors
- hull wood/ concrete armor, see Hardcorps models site for reference pics (Italeri kit only offers the wood outer planking)
- replace kit .50 mg with fe one from the Academy mg set
Hope this helps.

The second pair of photos on this page from Hard Corps Models show a mid-production M4A2 captioned as being on Iwo Jima, reading Ed Gilbert's old postings on Missing Links I also got the impression that the 3rd Battalions tanks were mid-production (as in Dragon's Tarawa M4A2) and not late production (as in Academy/Italeri)

Don,

this photo is very intresting, that particular Sherman clearly has the distinctive welded hull front of the A2 and no duckbill. add the aircraft style star and bar marking and you got an Iwo example that I'm very tempted to model but there are a couple of issues though:
-lack of reference, I doubt I could find enough pics of this tank to do the subject any justice
-I still believe the mid production A2s on Iwo Jima had a loader's hatch which DML's early turret lacks.
-the tank clearly has no wading gear or duckbills so I guess it didnt participate in landing operations at all.
-lack of wood planking, sandbags, nets over the hatches and the presence of the split TC hatch makes me suspect that it is not an Iwo Jima machine at all. also notice the writing on the side - looks like it says Dora which I believe is a D company machine from the Tarawa landings. D Co. tanks also had these aircraft markings.

what do you guys think?

edit: I noticed this M4A2 has the antena on the fron hull ant. mount. does that makes it the CO comander's mount?

The new M4A3 shermans were wider and heavier than the old M4A2's, and the lighter LCM's could neither carry them nor be expected to survive in Iwo's heavy surf. Most of the tanks of the 4th and 5th tank bn's where loaded into LSM's. The sea going landing ship, medium could embark five sherman tanks (the usual load was three) and did not require an LSD as a mother ship. The 3rd tank Bn was loaded aboard three of the precious LST's.

are you refering to the mid production tank carrying the writing - Apache?
if so then I still need the rear wading trunk and duckbill tracks to make it.

to make things more complicated Bison mentions the tank is from an unidentified unit but it is an A2, has the aricraft style markings and has an "8" marking on the back of the wading trunk like the first picture you brought here of a 3rd battalion tank -

in the picture the tank has a low bustle turret and no spare track link holders at the back so it does seem like a mid production A2 or at least one that has some mid production cahractristics (but you can never be sure with Shermans....its even less systematic than german armor).

RHPS made duckbill tracks but it seems they are out of business. I'll try to find a new-old stock set or Ebay one.
about cheek armor...I'll have to guess here...

the Bison diagram of Apache has no standoff wood plankning armor but it has the extra steel plates welded armor where the magazines are. the pic of the A2 numbered 62 also seems to have them and so do the rest of the tanks in the picture (but its hard to determine wether they are of the same unit or maybe even A3s.

one more question - isn't Apache supposed to belong to A company or there is no rule of thumb that first letter denotes company?

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the Bison diagram of Apache has no standoff wood plankning armor but it has the extra steel plates welded armor where the magazines are. the pic of the A2 numbered 62 also seems to have them and so do the rest of the tanks in the picture (but its hard to determine wether they are of the same unit or maybe even A3s.

one more question - isn't Apache supposed to belong to A company or there is no rule of thumb that first letter denotes company?

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They are different units and time periods. Apache is the only one that is 3rd tanks Iwo Jima. The others are 56 degree hull (late) M4A2's and M4A3's. There is even one M4A3 Hvss105mm dozer tank in Korea.
Yes, if the name of the tank starts with A it's A Company Tank.
3rd tanks used no wood armor, extra steel plates are protection of dry storage shermans. My advice is find a better picture of a 3rd Bn tank to see if they used the plates or not.
Don