Yesterday I gave some panzer figures a base coat of semi gloss black. (Tamiya x-18)

What colours should I use for a wash and drybrushing?

If I understand it correctly, tank crews wore the black panzer uniforms, so Tiger I or II, Panther, etc crews would wear a black uniform.

Marder, Stug, etc. crews are in fieldgray, correct? But what with Jagdpanther crew? Black or fieldgray?

And since I'm busy asking questions, one last what colours would you use for washing and drybrushing fieldgray uniforms?

Thanks!

The basic rule was:

tank = black uniform
any assault gun/tank destroyer = grey

However, there were many exceptions, including leather outfits, camouflage, etc.

Also, it's hard to shadow a uniform you've already painted black. Most painters who must paint a black uniform either use a VERY dark grey or a bluish-black, and then go from there. I'm no expert painter by ANY stretch of the imagination, but using a very dark grey would then allow you to use a more pure black for shadows, and then a lighter grey for highlights.

Just a thought.

Rob

Dave,

I agree with Rob.

Basically, if you want to paint a black uniform - don't use black as your base coat.

I mix black & white Vallejo acrylics for that, which gives me a medium grey color. I then carefully apply a thin wash of black oil paint which settles nicely into the folds and creases, and also translucently darkens the uniform somewhat.

You can then highlight subtly to taste (you may not even need to), and the overall effect is very nice (though I say so myself).

I tried to take a couple of pics to show you what I mean, but sadly my camera (or more likely my photograpy skills) weren't up to the job of close-ups on 1/35 figures.

Worth trying out though - and it's a simple enough method.

hi dave
i don't like mixing color, can't get it right, so when i paint panzer figures, i use the tamiya nato black (XF-69)
i think this is an ideal color for panzer figures, it is lighter than black, and therefor it will be a contrast to the black color used for shading.
And in real life the color of the cloth will fade after some time, and only stay black for a short time. so it will look more realistic, well at least i think so

people say "dont use black as the base", but that is totally preferance. i always use black and it turns out fine, it just depends on like steve said and u want to get the black for the folds. but as far as im concerned go for it and use a grey for the folds

presto

Like white, black is an absolute S*d of a colour to shade! Dave, I note that you say that you used semi-gloss black, were you aiming for the leather effect, e.g. 12SS Pz Div? If so, I've always found that using matt black, then gently buffing the figures when THOROUGHLY dry, is more effective. It also gives you a sort of "instant shading", because the creases stay dull if you are careful. If you are trying to reproduce the leather clothing, note it was a different cut completely to the standard black panzer uniform, being single breasted with a mandarin collar.
Over the years I have tried all kinds of different colurs to shade black. I once tried a brownish colour on the highlights; it gave an interesting effect, but wasn't really right (you notice I say I only tried it once). Grey isn't either, but somehow it looks sort of OK if it has a bit of blue in it.

Dave,
Further to what you are asking about armoured units clothing, it rather depends on the units and the time involved. The black panzer clothing was originally reserved for wear only when on duty with the vehicle, at any other time, field grey should be worn. In addition, members of panzer regiments who didn't crew tanks, eg office wallahs, mechanics, support drivers, didn't get the black clothing. As time went on these distinctions blurred. I have seen a photo of the driver of a truck carrying assault boats from an engineering unit in HG wearing black panzer clothing. However the rule in the Wehrmacht basically stayed the same, black for tank crews, field grey for Sturmartillerie (eg Hummel, Wespe), Panzerjaeger (eg Jagdpanther, Panzerjager IV, Marders etc), or Stug crews. This was complicated somewhat by the fact that due to lack of tanks, some panzer units received Stugs instead, so theoretically you could see Stug crew in black panzer uniforms (eg SS Pz Regt 9 had its 7 & 8 Kompanie equipped with Stugs). The SS are slightly more complicated as towards the end of the war the black clothing seems to have gone into abeyance, replaced by the camo suit of similar cut, or the one piece camoflaged overall. Also the lightweight reed green herringbone twill panzer denims were a popular item of clothing throughout the German forces, recognisable by having a large external breast pocket on the left breast. There is an excellent set of photos of a Jagdpanther crew in "Ruckmarsh, Then & Now", which is about the German retreat from Normandy. They are all wearing reed green denims.

Steve,

I'm trying to depict crew of heavy tank battalions. The 101st and 501st heavy tank battalions. So, I'll have to go for the leather look.

I'm also doing one figure on a Panther from the 9th Panzer Division. So that one should then be in flat black.

I was just not sure about the Jagdpanther crew, on a lot of models here, and on other sites, people paint their uniforms in black, so that is then incorrect I guess, and should be field grey.

Thanks for all the info, it helped me a lot!

Hi Preston,

Thanks for the tips. Since my figures are now allready painted black, I will go from there.

Would raw umber work to make the shades?

What colour do you use for drybrushing, to give some highlights?

Thanks!

dave. depending on ur terrain i would not know about using the umber if u have a mud terrain by all means please do. what i do is i paint the pants black, and then with drybrushing take a neutral grey acrylic and dab it on the folds and boots. also. i mix black and grey and get it really dark then put it on the folds (with black pants). i like to mix acrylic "mud" paint with the grey to give the dirt some texture. if u want ur folds to have shades, use a dark grey.

preston

Hi

I think you've been given quite a bit of useful information already. If you need to repaint the figure I can't imagine it being to much of a hassle or expense to do so.

For further information there is a Articles section over on the sister site Historicus Forma here that has articles on painting as do most model web sites.

Two books to recommend are the ones by Calvin Tan and Jaume Ortiz published by Osprey.

To see Jaumes outstanding work check out the planetfigure site which he has several figures in the vbench list.

http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14851

http://www.planetfigure.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14851

For Calvins brilliant work he has his own web site and does a lot of work for Alpine Miniatures. Again check out his site for images and tips etc. in his blogs. He shows the colours he used to shade his panzer figures amongst the images here

http://news.webshots.com/album/557347026QWvPNT

and his web site is here.

http://www.zyclyon.blogspot.com/

Hope they inspire you, I know they did me.

Alan

Alan, thanks for the links!

Preston, thanks for the tips, with normal grey, you mean? Can you give me a Tamiya xf number? The problem is, I'm a bit colorblind, so it's better for me to trust the numbers, instead of my eyes...

Steve, one more question, the troops of the Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilungs, would they wear fieldgrey or black? Like for exemple Schwere Panzerjäger Abteilung 560, in the Ardennes, they were attached to the 12th SS. Would they still wear field grey or black uniforms?

Thanks!

Don't know the unit, presume it's Wehrmacht with a number like that. I would plump for field grey if pressed. Is it a Jagdpanther unit?

yo dave,
any kind of grey is good. i just use neutral grey. i dont do tamiya so i cant tell u the number. but any kind of grey is cool. standard grey i imagine it would be called "grey". anyway.. i dont know how u guess do it when ur color blind. i tip my hat to you.
i hope i was of use

preston

Steve,

Yes, it's a jagdpanther unit.

I tought I'll post a picture of my work on the panzer uniforms so far... There not finished yet, far from, but this is the first time I'm painting german panzer uniforms, so all feedback is welcome!

Thanks!

hey dave,
those figures are amazing. what colors did u use for the skin and face? maybe try toning down the black a little with a grey dry brushing (very light) or a wash.
very nice work

preston

For the faces and skin, I used Tamiya flat flesh... Well diluted and building it up in layers. I gave the faces about 4 or 5 coats, but not applying as much paint on all parts of the faces to create some depth. Normally I do a wash of burnt sienna on the faces and hands, I like the effect that this gives.

So, no fancy oil face painting, but that's good enough for me.

Hi Dave

To my knowledge the figures you have shown indicates a uniform cut of the standard cloth material, not leather and as such should not be shiny but matt like your other figure in the centre.

You may get away with showing the trousers in black leather, but the jacket is the cloth styled ones.

A coat of clear matt varnish would put that right, which is what some people paint their figures, tanks etc with anyway to remove any unwanted sheen.

Alan

Alan,

How can I see when the uniform is a standard panzer uniform that should be matt black, or when it is an SS panzer uniform, which should be leather, and thus shiny, if I'm not mistaken...

Just to get some more feedback, which is the best way to learn, here are some other figures I did a while back:









Sorry that the picture quality isn't that great, but I'm a fast learner! Even in taken better pictures!

Thanks in advance for all the feedback!