I wanna say that I really like those tracks. Their BEAUTIFUL! The're th best part of the vehicle. I only whould make the green stipes a bit more greener cus they look a little bit blue.
Lars
Hosted by Darren Baker
Retreat in Normandie 1944
marsiascout
Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 09:33 AM UTC
madspaniard
Porto, Portugal
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Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:09 AM UTC
Alan, thanks a lot for your input.Lars thanks to you too for your words,the green is really green,but my white balance of my digital camera seems to be the reason of it.
Thanks a lot to both.
Cheers
Pedro
Thanks a lot to both.
Cheers
Pedro
marsiascout
Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:14 AM UTC
Did you do that with pigments?
Lars
Lars
milvehfan
North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:44 AM UTC
Lookin really good ! I like it alot .
sadodd
Nebraska, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:04 AM UTC
Pedro,
Looking great so far. Hope to see the ground work done soon. I like the stuff you used for the side of the road. Keep up the good work.
Looking great so far. Hope to see the ground work done soon. I like the stuff you used for the side of the road. Keep up the good work.
madspaniard
Porto, Portugal
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Posted: Monday, March 31, 2008 - 09:52 AM UTC
Thanks guys for your nice words.Lars they are not pigments but enamel paint.
This is my late update on the dio,what do you think of this normandie countryside,and his hedgerows?
Thanks in advance
Pedro
This is my late update on the dio,what do you think of this normandie countryside,and his hedgerows?
Thanks in advance
Pedro
jimb
New York, United States
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Posted: Monday, March 31, 2008 - 10:40 AM UTC
I like it even more now that you've added groundwork & trees. Very nice.
I hope for that officer's sake that he's ordering the driver to let his "walking wounded" on for a ride, or the soldier behind him is going to smack him in the back of the head!
Great sceen!
Jim
I hope for that officer's sake that he's ordering the driver to let his "walking wounded" on for a ride, or the soldier behind him is going to smack him in the back of the head!
Great sceen!
Jim
madspaniard
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:22 AM UTC
Thanks Jim, for your nice comments,very glad that you like it.
Pedro
Pedro
Jamesite
United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 01:03 AM UTC
A great scene, I can just imagine the RSO driver leaning out and saying 'fancy a lift boys?!' except in german obviously!
Not wanting to drag this up again, but the RSO was designed for the conditions on the eastern front and so deployed there accordingly. However, many veteran divisions were deployed from the Eastern Front to Normandy, and it is likely they would bring their equipment with them! Therefore i'd expect a few made it there. There is even disputed evidence that captured T-34's were seen in Normandy but I won't bring that one up!
While i'm on the subject of historical accuracy, I should also mention that Carentan was held by a Fallschirmjager unit and so soldiers retreating from there should be paratroopers, however, its no problem as the roadsign just sets the area and you don't need to read that much into it!
As I said a great scene, ignore the nit-picks, your builds and painting are great, particularly like the chipping you've done.
A Lovely dio, well done!
James
Not wanting to drag this up again, but the RSO was designed for the conditions on the eastern front and so deployed there accordingly. However, many veteran divisions were deployed from the Eastern Front to Normandy, and it is likely they would bring their equipment with them! Therefore i'd expect a few made it there. There is even disputed evidence that captured T-34's were seen in Normandy but I won't bring that one up!
While i'm on the subject of historical accuracy, I should also mention that Carentan was held by a Fallschirmjager unit and so soldiers retreating from there should be paratroopers, however, its no problem as the roadsign just sets the area and you don't need to read that much into it!
As I said a great scene, ignore the nit-picks, your builds and painting are great, particularly like the chipping you've done.
A Lovely dio, well done!
James
guygantic
Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 03:14 AM UTC
Pedro,
This is a well executed diorama, I enjoy it a lot !
The figures are painted as they should be, with good detail painting. Figures are well chosen too, the bikers are just cool ! The ground work is nicely done.
And the RSO is in fact an RSW (Raupenschlepper West), so you have chosen a beautiful vehicle for this diorama. Keep on posting this fine work ! Greetz Guy.
This is a well executed diorama, I enjoy it a lot !
The figures are painted as they should be, with good detail painting. Figures are well chosen too, the bikers are just cool ! The ground work is nicely done.
And the RSO is in fact an RSW (Raupenschlepper West), so you have chosen a beautiful vehicle for this diorama. Keep on posting this fine work ! Greetz Guy.
madspaniard
Porto, Portugal
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Posted: Friday, April 04, 2008 - 05:45 AM UTC
Many thanks,James and Guy for your very encouraging words.
Pedro
Pedro
sadodd
Nebraska, United States
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Posted: Friday, April 04, 2008 - 06:39 AM UTC
Pedro,
Outstanding work. Great scene and wonderful ground work.
Outstanding work. Great scene and wonderful ground work.
CDK
Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 09:59 AM UTC
Very nice work Pedro, excellent scene. I wish I could build a dio so well.
As far as the figure in the camo, if we are going to go by Dragons box top art work as reference, than we should also notice the white interior of the hood and the fact that it has a hood period. IE: it's a winter garment, not a standard camo smock ,as they didn't have white interiors or hoods. As someone mentioned though, things like weather could explain this and it really isn't hard to find wartime photos of soldiers in a mish mash of clothing but a fair weather camo smock that is not.
As far as the figure in the camo, if we are going to go by Dragons box top art work as reference, than we should also notice the white interior of the hood and the fact that it has a hood period. IE: it's a winter garment, not a standard camo smock ,as they didn't have white interiors or hoods. As someone mentioned though, things like weather could explain this and it really isn't hard to find wartime photos of soldiers in a mish mash of clothing but a fair weather camo smock that is not.
madspaniard
Porto, Portugal
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Posted: Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 12:46 PM UTC
Thanks Steve and Lamont for your nice comments.
I add another pic,this time in daylight.
Thanks again
Pedro
I add another pic,this time in daylight.
Thanks again
Pedro
milvehfan
North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 01:00 PM UTC
Very Nice work, Like it, well balanced and cool ground work .
madspaniard
Porto, Portugal
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Posted: Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 08:01 AM UTC
Thanks Milvehfan for your words.
I attach a few new pics, with other angle and light.
Thanks
Pedro
I attach a few new pics, with other angle and light.
Thanks
Pedro
hogarth
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Posted: Monday, April 14, 2008 - 08:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Very nice work Pedro, excellent scene. I wish I could build a dio so well.
As far as the figure in the camo, if we are going to go by Dragons box top art work as reference, than we should also notice the white interior of the hood and the fact that it has a hood period. IE: it's a winter garment, not a standard camo smock ,as they didn't have white interiors or hoods. As someone mentioned though, things like weather could explain this and it really isn't hard to find wartime photos of soldiers in a mish mash of clothing but a fair weather camo smock that is not.
Actually, Lamont, there's nothing about it, other than color, that makes it a winter smock. It has no special liner or anything else. It was issued primarily to snipers, though not exclusively.
There is nothing wrong with it's use either on the Dragon box or in this dio.
Rob
CDK
Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 04:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually, Lamont, there's nothing about it, other than color, that makes it a winter smock.
Actually, Rob, that's the exact thing that makes it a winter garment, the color. I never said it was padded/insulated, then again neither is the helmet cover but the white side serves one purpose, camouflage in snowy conditions, which if I recall correctly, happens in winter.
Quoted Text
It has no special liner or anything else.
it most certainly does, a white one, for camouflage against a snow covered backdrop.
Quoted Text
It was issued primarily to snipers, though not exclusively.
Sounds to me like something one might read on re-enactment sites. There was never a specialized sniper smock, nor was it ever officially referred to as one, the only thing that may lead one to describe the item as such would be the version with the face veil attached to the hood and even then, it's merely modern jargon/mis-information that has unfortunately been repeated far too many times on the big 'ol internet. This is nothing more than the common Heerestarnjacke which was issued equally to every and any soldier that was lucky enough to get one, Machine Gunner, Ammo Carrier, Artillery Man and even quite possibly a Sniper. One size fits all if you will.
Quoted Text
There is nothing wrong with it's use either on the Dragon box or in this dio.
I'm assuming that was just a blanket statement and not directed at me, considering that I said the very same thing in my statement that you quoted.
There are several variations of the Heerestarnjacke but only two major designs. Although the more rare of the two is the summer smock, there are enough photographic references that show it in use. It was one layer of material and you could clearly see the camouflage pattern which would bleed through to the inside surface, much like your blue jeans ( which aren't white on the inside ). Looking at the inside of the sleeves and hood etc. we can clearly see it isn't white at all and it is one thin layer of material, this is the summer version of the smock.
The winter versions had two layers of material. The outside layer was printed in a camouflage pattern while the inside layer was plain white. This wasn't meant for warmth but camouflage. This is the more common of the two designs but has been wrongfully described in many reference books as having " an unprinted interior which appeared white " Wrong, it had a completely separate white interior which was sewn into the smock and can clearly be seen here:
Tamiya even make a figure set which contain this version of the Heerestarnjacke, the smocks are shown white side out, worn over the great coat. The great coat and other articles of clothing were for warmth, the Heerestarnjcke was for camouflage only.
The reversible, insulated winter parka had yet to be made at this point in the war and there is no comparison between the two, nor did I imply one. The Tamiya set I'm talking about can be seen here:
The only words that I mis-spoke are the ones regarding the hood, as we can see the summer version clearly has one, again for camouflage, not for warmth.
ausboarder
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 10:15 PM UTC
Great work on the tracks, and i especially like the AT gun.
great work
great work
hogarth
Maryland, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 01:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Actually, Lamont, there's nothing about it, other than color, that makes it a winter smock.
Actually, Rob, that's the exact thing that makes it a winter garment, the color. I never said it was padded/insulated, then again neither is the helmet cover but the white side serves one purpose, camouflage in snowy conditions, which if I recall correctly, happens in winter.Quoted TextIt has no special liner or anything else.
it most certainly does, a white one, for camouflage against a snow covered backdrop.Quoted TextIt was issued primarily to snipers, though not exclusively.
Sounds to me like something one might read on re-enactment sites. There was never a specialized sniper smock, nor was it ever officially referred to as one, the only thing that may lead one to describe the item as such would be the version with the face veil attached to the hood and even then, it's merely modern jargon/mis-information that has unfortunately been repeated far too many times on the big 'ol internet. This is nothing more than the common Heerestarnjacke which was issued equally to every and any soldier that was lucky enough to get one, Machine Gunner, Ammo Carrier, Artillery Man and even quite possibly a Sniper. One size fits all if you will.Quoted TextThere is nothing wrong with it's use either on the Dragon box or in this dio.
I'm assuming that was just a blanket statement and not directed at me, considering that I said the very same thing in my statement that you quoted.
There are several variations of the Heerestarnjacke but only two major designs. Although the more rare of the two is the summer smock, there are enough photographic references that show it in use. It was one layer of material and you could clearly see the camouflage pattern which would bleed through to the inside surface, much like your blue jeans ( which aren't white on the inside ). Looking at the inside of the sleeves and hood etc. we can clearly see it isn't white at all and it is one thin layer of material, this is the summer version of the smock.
The winter versions had two layers of material. The outside layer was printed in a camouflage pattern while the inside layer was plain white. This wasn't meant for warmth but camouflage. This is the more common of the two designs but has been wrongfully described in many reference books as having " an unprinted interior which appeared white " Wrong, it had a completely separate white interior which was sewn into the smock and can clearly be seen here:
Tamiya even make a figure set which contain this version of the Heerestarnjacke, the smocks are shown white side out, worn over the great coat. The great coat and other articles of clothing were for warmth, the Heerestarnjcke was for camouflage only.
The reversible, insulated winter parka had yet to be made at this point in the war and there is no comparison between the two, nor did I imply one. The Tamiya set I'm talking about can be seen here:
The only words that I mis-spoke are the ones regarding the hood, as we can see the summer version clearly has one, again for camouflage, not for warmth.
In your original post you said, "a fair weather smock it is not" (which, I might add, sounds like something Yoda would say!). But, but your own admission, it lacks any type of liner for warmth. Thus, with the non-white side out, as depicted, there is nothing wrong with it's use here, and I would argue that it certainly can be a fair weather smock as used here. Likewise, since the cut of the garments is the same (winter vs. summer), all one has to do is not paint the inside of the hood white, and voila!, it's a summer smock. I suppose it's just a question of semantics about the original language you used, which seemed to be saying that he's wearing a winter smock in the summer, and that might be incorrect, but might not be because nearly anything goes late in the war.
sorry I misunderstood what you were trying to say.
Rob
madspaniard
Porto, Portugal
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 08:46 AM UTC
Thanks guys for your important comments.
But I also think is a sniper camo,with no white on the inside.
I going to make some deep investigation in fotos from WW2.
Thanks again.
Pedro
But I also think is a sniper camo,with no white on the inside.
I going to make some deep investigation in fotos from WW2.
Thanks again.
Pedro
RonV
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 08:03 AM UTC
Just to clarify things, the garment in the Dragon Figure set is a camouflage smock issued to Heer troops. The splinter version was first evident in 1943 and seems to have been used mostly by scout troops. The "Marsh" pattern smocks were first encountered in 1944 and seem to have seen broader issue but it was still a rare item. Neither were meant for sniper use exclusively but no doubt some did use them. Published accounts of German snipers suggest that they preferred to make their own camouflage garments. The splinter pattern with hood is a very rare item as was the march pattern without the hood. The norm was just the opposite.
The camouflage patterns were printed on one side onlyand depending on the make up of the fabric, wouold either remain in the natural color of the material or bleed through, leaving a ghost of the pattern. I don't beleive that these Heer smocks were ever intended for "snow"
camouflage but that use may have occured.
The smock worn in the Tamiya kit was a purpose made snow smock.
I hope this helps to sort things out.
Nice diorama by the way. I'm seen the hard cab RSO on the western front as well as the steel wheeled trucj type. I suspect the open cab type may have been there as well.
Cheers,
Ron Volstad
The camouflage patterns were printed on one side onlyand depending on the make up of the fabric, wouold either remain in the natural color of the material or bleed through, leaving a ghost of the pattern. I don't beleive that these Heer smocks were ever intended for "snow"
camouflage but that use may have occured.
The smock worn in the Tamiya kit was a purpose made snow smock.
I hope this helps to sort things out.
Nice diorama by the way. I'm seen the hard cab RSO on the western front as well as the steel wheeled trucj type. I suspect the open cab type may have been there as well.
Cheers,
Ron Volstad
Blade48mrd
Washington, United States
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Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 08:48 AM UTC
Pedro -
Very nicely executed diorama and definitely brings out the theme. Figures are nicely done and again support the overall theme well. Since there isn't a 'hurried' retreat atmosphere, I'd be thinking they would have had some time to use more "foliage" to camo the RSO from the 'Jabos' that were very evident during this period. You a little on the PAK, but some on the RSO is needed. Great job and keep us updated.
Blade48mrd
Very nicely executed diorama and definitely brings out the theme. Figures are nicely done and again support the overall theme well. Since there isn't a 'hurried' retreat atmosphere, I'd be thinking they would have had some time to use more "foliage" to camo the RSO from the 'Jabos' that were very evident during this period. You a little on the PAK, but some on the RSO is needed. Great job and keep us updated.
Blade48mrd
madspaniard
Porto, Portugal
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Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 12:18 PM UTC
Thanks Ron, for your point on the smock,I think you are correct .
Mike, thanks for your input also.I am going to follow your idea of the foliage camo on the Rso.There are a lot of pictures with it.I will try some nice camo,and I will post it.
Thanks again.
Pedro
Mike, thanks for your input also.I am going to follow your idea of the foliage camo on the Rso.There are a lot of pictures with it.I will try some nice camo,and I will post it.
Thanks again.
Pedro
CDK
Massachusetts, United States
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2008 - 02:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Just to clarify things, the garment in the Dragon Figure set is a camouflage smock issued to Heer troops.
Yup, the Heerestarnjacke, not some fictional 'sniper smock'..
Quoted Text
The camouflage patterns were printed on one side onlyand depending on the make up of the fabric, wouold either remain in the natural color of the material or bleed through,
But HBT (Drillich) is not naturally white, HBT is naturally a light brown or tan, yet the inside of that smock above is clearly very white, it had to have been altered purposefully. If not for camouflage, then why ?
As far as the smocks on the Tamiya figs, I would love to see some reference pictures of those white smocks you describe, could you help guide me to where I could find such a thing ? I would greatly appreciate it.
.