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Cromwell Mk. IV commanders AA machine gun?
Jamesite
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Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 11:49 PM UTC
I was wondering, is there any evidence that Cromwell tanks were ever fitted with a machine gun on the turret like a sherman?

I'm looking for something to 'beef' up my 1/35 Tamiya kit, so that it packs a little more punch so to speak.

Could it be possible as a field modification?
If so would it be a .50 cal, .30 cal or a bren?

Or is this completely impossible and a stupid idea?

I'd appreciate a few of your thoughts, however theoretical!

Cheers,

James
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2008 - 09:10 AM UTC
Hi James,

They woudl have carried a Bren MG, which I imagine could also be rigged in the AA version.

Haven't seen any pics of them witrh.30 or .50 cals but you never know.

Al
Jamesite
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2008 - 10:27 AM UTC
Thanks Alan,
I did think that a Bren would have been issued but am unsure about any mounting that may have been fitted. Rather than use artistic license I was hoping there was some evidence for such a AA mount.
I figure the .30 cals on Stuarts and .50 cals on Shermans were there as they were issued with the tanks from the US, as Russian shermans had .50 cals fitted. Therefore they almost certainly were not issued with British armour.
That doesn't rule out any chance's of field mods though (aren't field mods the modelers best freind?!).
I know some British units consisted of Shermans and Cromwells, so if the Shermans had .50cals fitted perhaps some Cromwells in the unit may have made the effort too?
Saying that a quick checking of my references doesn't seem to show many British Shermans in the ETO with .50 cals fitted.

OK in the course of this post i've completely confused the issue.

Any thoughts guys? Any ideas about what kind of mount any type of AA gun may of had?

Thanks,

James
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2008 - 10:35 AM UTC
Hi James,

Probably similar to the Humber: SC

I've seen pics of twin ones fitted on Shermans!

Check out Resicast they had fitings for the standing version I'm not sure if it also included fittings for AC/tanks

Al
FireflyMkIC
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2008 - 02:35 PM UTC
Hi James,
AA machine guns were indeed carried by British tanks. In the early years of WWII this was a Bren LMG on the Lakeman mounting. The later tanks such as the Centaur and Cromwell had provision for the PLM mounting for one or two Bren LMG's. This is seen as a square plate with four bolts situated between the two turret hatches.
However in practice the weapons were seldom carried as the threat from Axis air power was usually minimal, and the Bren of little more than a morale booster. All American tanks supplied to the British had .50 cal Brownings supplied. But few were actually used in action.

Jamesite
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Posted: Friday, April 25, 2008 - 11:57 PM UTC
Thanks guys,
That info is very useful. Twin Brens would certainly give the impression im looking for!

Phil, I see the mounting plate you mean, would it have a hole in the centre or a rod fitted there, to allow the mount to be attached?

Does anyone have a decent picture or diagram of such a mount? I've done a bit of searching but found nothing that gives me any clear picture.

I'd be planning to scratchbuild such a mount, but from what I can tell it looks pretty complex so I could be shooting myself in the foot here!

Thanks again guys, I appreciate your input,

James
FireflyMkIC
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Posted: Saturday, April 26, 2008 - 12:50 PM UTC
Hello Again James,

The plate depicted on the Tamiya turret would be removed and the PLM mounted in its place. I have only seen one picture of the PLM actually mounted and that was a twin gun set up (as will be provided in the new D-Day Humber SC MkI from Bronco). The tank was from the Welsh Guards and was being inspected prior to D-Day.

Phil
Jamesite
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Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 10:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello Again James,

The plate depicted on the Tamiya turret would be removed and the PLM mounted in its place. I have only seen one picture of the PLM actually mounted and that was a twin gun set up (as will be provided in the new D-Day Humber SC MkI from Bronco). The tank was from the Welsh Guards and was being inspected prior to D-Day.

Phil


Ok Phil, thanks for the heads up.

Talking of humber kits, i've had a look at the mounts on these kits, and I think perhaps the PLM mount is beyond my scratchbuilding abilities.
hmmm, perhaps i'm going to have to drop the idea or go for the artistic license and fit a US MG.

Any more thoughts are greatly appreciated,

James
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hello Again James,

The plate depicted on the Tamiya turret would be removed and the PLM mounted in its place. I have only seen one picture of the PLM actually mounted and that was a twin gun set up (as will be provided in the new D-Day Humber SC MkI from Bronco). The tank was from the Welsh Guards and was being inspected prior to D-Day.

Phil


Ok Phil, thanks for the heads up.

Talking of humber kits, i've had a look at the mounts on these kits, and I think perhaps the PLM mount is beyond my scratchbuilding abilities.
hmmm, perhaps i'm going to have to drop the idea or go for the artistic license and fit a US MG.

Any more thoughts are greatly appreciated,

James


The PLM twin Vickers machine gun mount will be included in Bronco's second version of the Humber Scout Car. That said, I've only ever seen it mounted on Cromwells in training in the UK.
Drader
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Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 - 01:32 AM UTC
Standard infantry Bren w/bipod without any mounting at all?

David
Jamesite
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Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 - 01:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The PLM twin Vickers machine gun mount will be included in Bronco's second version of the Humber Scout Car. That said, I've only ever seen it mounted on Cromwells in training in the UK.


Thanks Gerald, i've pretty much decided against the twin bren mounting as I bought the Tamiya kit with the specific intention of it being a quick and easy build, with no need for major upgrade or alteration, the complex nature of the PLM mount looks to be exactly what I don't want!

Saying that, I like to do something a little different to the norm with my builds and so I was looking for an AA gun to fulfill this requirement of my builds!


Quoted Text

Standard infantry Bren w/bipod without any mounting at all?

David


David,
Are you talking about a bren deployed as it would be on the ground but sitting on top of the turret? This could be the easy way out of this!

I appreciate the comments guys,

James
Drader
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Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 - 02:23 AM UTC
James

Something like this



David
Jamesite
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Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 - 02:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

James

Something like this



David


That is excellent David thankyou, that could well be the final look I go for!

Much appreciated,

James
Jamesite
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Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 03:53 AM UTC
Just to re-kindle an old thread with a twist.....

Same question but for the Churchill Infantry tank Mk. VII?

It's a mean looking brute and I want it to look meaner!

Thanks,

James

P.S.

In response to my own earlier thread topic here's a pic of the Cromwell in action with a twin bren PLM mount:

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