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Dioramas: Before Building
Ideas, concepts, and researching your next diorama.
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Dio plan criticism needed
sweaver
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 07:57 AM UTC
I have been planning the layout of my next diorama recently, and I have finally come up with something that I like. However, since I have been looking at it for so long and may be overlooking something, I want to get some constructive criticism on it, as it's much easier to fix it now than later.

The dio is supposed to represent a KT and it's crew being ambushed in the southern portion of the Bulge in December '44. I will be using two of the figures from Tamiya's Field Briefing set for the Germans, and DML's 101st Airborne at Bastogne (all 4 of them) for the Americans. The KT is Dragon's Ardennes kit.

So if you see anything that needs correction or a little tweaking, then let me know and I'd be happy to implement it.


This drawing is not to scale, nor is it positioned correctly. It just gives a general idea of the diorama.


This is the template for the building I intend to scratchbuild. I may not add the battle damage.


Just a mockup using the template and KT on the base.

Many thanks to Claude Joachim and his Clervaux build log for helping me get this far!

Thanks for looking!
Samuel


martyncrowther
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 08:01 AM UTC
great idea Sam you should have the us in the house instead barrickaded in!


Martyn
lespauljames
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 01:39 PM UTC
i liek the idea, but maybe there is too much house, there will not be much room for anything else with the current combination maybe if you move the hose back a lil, and place the kt a few degrees offset, just my thoughts, regardless, its ur dio, and you can do what u want with it!!
although mickey mouse cooking bacon on the engine grilles may be stretching it lmao,

good luck Samuel
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 01:45 PM UTC
Good planning and good layout...........you should consider adding more U.S troops......maybe a bazooka team or machine gun team in the upper level window about to fire down on the Tiger crew?.....remember it is an ambush.......the high ground is important......watch the figure placement as you don't want cross fire.

Where are the other 3 members of the Tiger crew?.....typically tanks crew members don't wander off.....not in modern times and not in WWII......the tank is their home and fighting platform. Maybe have them on the back deck facing away while refueling or loading ammunition or on the ground on the blind side of the tank as well.

I would suggest having the house roof damaged to allow any troops you place on the upper floor to be seen by viewers......and consider using actual German tank crew figures.

Good luck with your dio.
chefchris
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 01:47 PM UTC
I would get rid of the Gi in front of the tank and replace the German Officers with Panzer Grenadiers or Falschmjagers - just a thought. I like your mock up and the Tamiya KT with the DML extras.

Chris
Cookin' with Gas.....
HONEYCUT
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 02:34 PM UTC
Gday Samuel
Another consideration is where the rubble from the building is going to end up? I think this would be an effective way to fill the gap at ground level between the tank's right rear and the building line.
Brad
majjanelson
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 02:38 PM UTC
Sam,

I agree with Chris about relocating the GI in front of the KT, since it's likely the remaining crew are manning their positions inside, especially the Driver and Hull MG/Radio. I also like the idea of a MG or Bazzoka crew in an upper story.

I might be a little impartial, but maybe have a couple engineer sappers sneaking through a basement door or shell hole at the building's lower side that is right beside the KT, trying to place satchel charges or other demo into the running gear?

Like a said, I might be a little partial, but Engineers did play a BIG role in blunting the German advance.

German Officers looking at a map and a knocked down sign? That the GIs intentionally did to setup the ambush?

Good luck!
slodder
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Posted: Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 11:25 PM UTC
I don't know if you have enough base to support 5 figures. You'll have rubble here and there and that'll take up space. Then you'll need a bit of separation between subjects. Not sure if there is enough real estate.

I do like the idea of figures "IN" the building. To ambush a TII from the front is a very desperate move.
sweaver
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Posted: Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 10:29 PM UTC
Thanks for the numerous helpful replies. I'll try to answer everybody's suggestions here, just maybe not personally as many people suggested the same thing.

I am considering putting one of the GIs in the building as you guys suggested. It will probably be the figure that is kneeling and shooting (I will try to get a pic of the figure set up as everyone may not be familiar with the one I'm using).

Jimmy C, I know just what you mean about there being too much house. I have though that often, which is part of the reason I thought of giving it some battle damage. That would cut down on the mass of the wall. I will play with the positioning a little and see if I can use less of the building.

Chris: Actually, the tank is all DML's Ardennes kit, I'm just halfway through painting it.

Jeff, good point about the remaining crew being inside the tank. It looks like I need to get rid of that GI in front for sure!

Scott: I agree, there may be too little space for that many figures, however I wanted to convey a cramped and desperate atmosphere. Maybe something like the scene in Band of Brothers where the soldiers ambush the German wagon at night under the bridge (I think it's episode 2). I am hoping that putting the one figure in the house will make it less cramped. Thanks for your input. I highly respect your diorama skills and knowledge.

Many thanks again to everyone who posted. Your help is greatly appreciated!
Samuel

P.S. The first diagram in my original post is very rough. I'm not even sure the KT is proportioned right to the base and building.
UncaBret
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Posted: Monday, October 27, 2008 - 01:25 AM UTC
I would think that if some of the KT crew had dismounted, there would be a hatch or two open. And you could add a crewman or two in the hates, looking in the direction of the officers (thus allowing the GIs to get closer).

Funny thing, I've been thinking about building the same thing for a while, only in 1/48 and with a different German tank.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Monday, October 27, 2008 - 03:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have been planning the layout of my next diorama recently, and I have finally come up with something that I like. However, since I have been looking at it for so long and may be overlooking something, I want to get some constructive criticism on it, as it's much easier to fix it now than later.

The dio is supposed to represent a KT and it's crew being ambushed in the southern portion of the Bulge in December '44. I will be using two of the figures from Tamiya's Field Briefing set for the Germans, and DML's 101st Airborne at Bastogne (all 4 of them) for the Americans. The KT is Dragon's Ardennes kit.

So if you see anything that needs correction or a little tweaking, then let me know and I'd be happy to implement it.


This drawing is not to scale, nor is it positioned correctly. It just gives a general idea of the diorama.


This is the template for the building I intend to scratchbuild. I may not add the battle damage.


Just a mockup using the template and KT on the base.

Many thanks to Claude Joachim and his Clervaux build log for helping me get this far!

Thanks for looking!
Samuel


I think the idea of an ambush being staged by unseen troops from just ten or fifteen feet away is a bit contrived, unless they plan to storm in with submachine guns and hope the tank is unmanned (a very unlikely scenario, I suspect).
A bazooka would be the weapon of choice, but it would be fired from a safe distance (shooting from ten feet away would be suicidal for the rocket team). You would need a diorama the size of a billiard table to properly depict a bazooka team and its target together. If US troops found themselves that close to a tank, they would either be trying to get the heck away or laying low until it passed. A bazooka shot to its rear once it was well down the street would be the most sensible strategy.
captnenglish
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Posted: Monday, October 27, 2008 - 04:32 PM UTC
Gerald I'd consider using this kit,http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRA6237 if I were you
Nito74
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Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 12:11 AM UTC
Mess up the track like with the german guys trying to fix it, some kind of trap set up from the US troops.
Maybe a bigger platform since the house and the tank are kind of big..

Nice set up !!
jowady
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Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 10:23 AM UTC
Okay, this is a complete change for the American part of your dio, and it depends on what you are comfortable with. rather than a bazooka team, maybe you could change it to some soldiers, Airborne or not, with a radio, calling in the KT as a target for artillery. You can have the small US team, on guard trying not to be seen, the Germans perhaps agitadedly consulting a map. Maybe a couple of guys pointing in different directions (you could perhaps rob some stuff from the "Achtung Jabos!" set.) I'm using an old Bill Mauldin cartoon as a starting point here, he had two dogfaces with a handy talkie, sitting in their hole, on top of which is parked a Stug. One of them is saying, no doubt quietly, into the radio, "I've got a taget but you've gotta be patient!"

John
martyncrowther
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Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 10:51 AM UTC
what about changing the german figures i think you can use a better set.

Martyn
sweaver
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Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 11:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think the idea of an ambush being staged by unseen troops from just ten or fifteen feet away is a bit contrived, unless they plan to storm in with submachine guns and hope the tank is unmanned (a very unlikely scenario, I suspect).


That is actually the scenario that I had in mind. (See my post above). I was hoping that I could make the viewer infer that the tank was unmanned by showing the turret hatches open and the TC and another talking outside. Like Jeff said earlier, though, the crew might still be manning their positions in the tank, which would be trouble. I wanted the ambush to appear very desperate, but this might be a little too much so.

The main problem I have is that I am building this on a tight budget. Because of this, I am locked into using the base and the Americans that I have but since I haven't purchased the Germans yet, I could get something else. This is also part of the reason I am taking so long building this and making sure I get everything right in the planning stage.

I like your idea, John! One of the figures doesn't quite fit with the rest, so if I could scratchbuild a radio for him, that could work. He's the guy in the background in the pic below.


Quoted Text

Funny thing, I've been thinking about building the same thing for a while, only in 1/48 and with a different German tank.


Great minds think alike!

Here is a closeup of the proposed arrangement of the figures coming around the corner.



And this is the figure set I'm using, for those of you who don't know. I believe it is now OOP.



Thanks for all the helpful replies!
Samuel
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 12:03 PM UTC
Well, if the Germans are hanging around thinking they are in a safe rear area, you might use the Tamiya German figures originally sold with the Wespe kit, now offered separately (one of their bagged kits, rather than in a box). There is one guy in an AFV uniform bundled up with hands in pockets and leaning on the vehicle who looks like he's shivering (December, 1944, was Belgium's worst winter in 30 years). As for the Americans, the guy in back should probably be looking the other way, since they are behind enemy lines and could be attacked from any direction. I doubt they could safely use a radio that close to the Germans unless the tank's engine was running.
sweaver
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Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 06:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, if the Germans are hanging around thinking they are in a safe rear area, you might use the Tamiya German figures originally sold with the Wespe kit, now offered separately (one of their bagged kits, rather than in a box). There is one guy in an AFV uniform bundled up with hands in pockets and leaning on the vehicle who looks like he's shivering (December, 1944, was Belgium's worst winter in 30 years). As for the Americans, the guy in back should probably be looking the other way, since they are behind enemy lines and could be attacked from any direction. I doubt they could safely use a radio that close to the Germans unless the tank's engine was running.


Thanks for the feedback, Gerald.

Those Germans sound like exactly what I need. Do you have a picture or know where I can get them? I did a Google search and came up with nothing.

I like the idea of having the guy in the back turned around. I will probably do that.

Samuel
muchachos
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Posted: Friday, October 31, 2008 - 08:22 AM UTC
Here's the set. 10 bucks for two plastic figures? Two Tamiya plastic figures? Seems a little expensive.

http://www.militaryhobbies.ca/product.cfm?ProductID=1382
jantkowiak
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Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 07:29 PM UTC
just a thought here - but if you're going to have one of the three providing rear security, you probably want it to be the rifleman instead of the BAR.

good luck with the project!


John A.
martyncrowther
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Posted: Saturday, December 06, 2008 - 11:28 PM UTC
Nice start buddy!

Have thought about replacing the figures?
And having these http://www.dragon-models.com/html/6490-poster.htm fasing the other way it would lokk better i think!

Martyn
newfish
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Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 01:32 AM UTC
is the tank gona be stationary with them just having a briefing ?

what about a bazooka guy in the building looking down????

sweaver
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Posted: Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 11:34 PM UTC
@ Scott: Thanks for the link. I agree, that is a little expensive considering their quality.

@ John: Interesting idea, but I'm curious as to why.

@ Martyn: Those figures are the best replacement I've seen so far! Thanks. I wonder, however, if they would be appropriate for a Western Front scene, especially given the headgear on the pointing soldier. I may be able to change it, though.

@ James: Yes, that is what I have in mind. It is a bit of a stretch of the imagination–four infantry armed only with rifles trying to ambush a KT, even an unmanned one, is desperate indeed–but that is exactly what I wanted. My current plans have the guy in the building holding a rifle and having several grenades and extra ammo clips ready on the floor at his side. Hopefully, this will keep the situation from seeming impossible.

Thanks for all the help. I am starting oil dot filters on the KT after having brush painted the camo–a long job! As for the dio itself, some of the figures have a base coat, and I have started cutting cobblestones for the road. I haven't cast the building yet.

Samuel
martyncrowther
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Posted: Monday, December 08, 2008 - 12:13 AM UTC
I don't see a problem. The Ardennes suffered the worst winter to date!

You can have the poses looking away from the building.

Martyn
sweaver
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Posted: Monday, December 08, 2008 - 10:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't see a problem. The Ardennes suffered the worst winter to date!

You can have the poses looking away from the building.

Martyn


I was concerned about the fur hat he is wearing since I haven't ever seen any pictures of troops wearing them in the West, and it looked Russian. He has a helmet hanging around his waist that I could replace it with, though.

Samuel
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