Does anyone know if the IDF ever used the M4A1 with the 76mm main gun? I have the HobbyBoss 1/48 kit and would like to paint it up as an Israeli vehicle, however, everything I can find refers to the up-gunned 105mm or a 75mm (I think) with a muzzle break. This kit does not have the muzzle brake on the main gun. Here's a link to the kit on HobbyBoss' site:

http://www.hobbyboss.com/84801.htm

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Yes. There are photos of M1 Super Shermans (what the Israelis called the 76mm armed Shermans) based on the M4A1 hull both with and without the muzzle brake in "Israeli Shermans" by Thomas Gannon (ISBN 1-892848-06-6). They would have seen service in the 1956 war.

I've since learned that the Super part of the name is reserved for the HVSS version. Otherwise, it is just M1 Sherman. Both VVSS and HVSS types were used in 1956, while some M1 Super Shermans were still in use in 1967. They were prominent in the attack on Jerusalem. In 1956 and after, you can see both oval and round loader's hatches also.

Tom

Tom, is there any chance of your book being reprinted?

Tom;
The Super Sherman name only applied to the M1 76mm armed Shermans, and it was for the armament not the suspension.

Kevin;
the IDF used the Sherman M4A1 76mm from 1956-1963, after which it was transfered to the reserves, so the main tank battallions could take delivery of the Mk III & V Centurions, and limited US M48's. The whole use of the M4A1 76mm, was w/& w/out the muzzlebreak,VVS & HVVS,as well as Radial and Diesel engines. They also had a few M4A3 armed with the 76mm. You are correct in whichever u choose.

Todd,
Tom wrote that since than he learn that the Super part of the name is reserved for the HVSS version" and its true.
Super Sherman name was given only to tanks with M1 gun and HVSS while the M1 with VVSS was called simply M1 Sherman.
I hope you will not argue about it with me.
There were tanks without and with different M. brakes in service as well many different configurations that can be interest buildings.
Robert Manasherob
SabIngaMartin

Gary:
I have the book in question. And the "Super Sherman" tag is thrown around just as badly as the "Isherman" description. The IDF doesn't call it "Isherman" either. But the Super part,, is referanced to the armament.m because of its ballistics at the time. Then the IDF developed the M51 w/ the French to outclass the 76mm. A much more effective fit I must say.

Correct me if Im wrong but weren't all the IDF 76 armed Shermans equipped with the either the thread protector or the muzzle brake, but not the straight M1 gun?

I have never seen a picture with it anyway
(I have Tom's book and along with Rob's they are incredible works)

Chris

There been also straight M1 ones too and many other nice things.
Robert Mansherob
SabIngaMartin

Robert, do you have any estimate of when we can expect the next book in your series?

Kevin, sorry to hijack your thread , but since he seemed to be looking in, I thought I'd broach the subject.

Best,
MIke

Mike,
Hard to say but I hope in very short time, the books will be soon ready for the print pros.
Robert

One of the past problems with IDF subjects is a lack of previous confirmation from the Israelis themselves. Thankfully, this is changing. When I first wrote "Israeli Sherman", I misunderstood what my Israeli source said regarding the M1 Super Sherman. Unfortunately, as I later learned what the correct designations were, Darlington Publications was out of business. Any reprint, in whatever form, would need to be an expanded and upgraded work. Robert and I discussed years ago the fact that there can never be too many IDF armor references, so who can say. There is so much variety that subjects can always be covered from different angles.

What is certain, as expressed by both Robert and myself, is that the M1 Sherman and M1 Super Sherman are two different vehicles. Another certainty is that the term M1, as used by the IDF, does refer to the 76mm weapon, generically, in all of its forms including M1, M1A1 and M1A2. Equally certain is the fact that "Super Sherman", as printed in earlier works to refer to any re-armed Israeli Sherman gun tank, is erroneous. Isherman is also an invention. The M50 and M51 are simply designated as such.

Regarding the many modeling options, , for a start, one can build the Dragon M4A1(76) Normandy version right out of the box, round loader's hatch, straight M1 gun and all and paint it in IDF colors (French OD) circa 1956, or you can do it as an Israeli supplied Ugandan vehicle in dark green. For 1967, switch to an oval hatch turret, add HVSS, smoke dischargers, searchlight mount and a muzzle brake, then paint it sand gray. Use photos, though, to get the right markings for the place and time.

Keep up the chatter about Israeli Shermans. Maybe someone will come out with truly accurate kit versions. Robert, what about AFV Club? Any hints?

Tom

Gentleman,
The IDF Sherman was a M4A3E8 super-sized, the IDF called it as stated the M51. It was not, however, armed with a 76mm gun, but was fitted with a massive 105mm gun. The T23 turrent made it ideal for the 105mm, all the IDF did was add more counterweight to the T23 turrent due to the barrel length. Some other Mod's. were done to the Engine and Transmission.

I dont know if this helps but Academy has a 1/35 scale Super Sherman out there if you really want a Super Sherman.

Gary,

I was adding my two cents in on the post. I realize that there are some people that know more than I did in this area. I stated what I knew and left it at that.
If I happen to repeat something some else said or get something wrong, than I've helped someone out or I've learned something.
In this case I've done both.

No Tom, AFV will not do IDF Sherman as I know, but I will not surprise if soon a new M50 will be pop up in plastic from other company.
Robert Manasherob
SabIngaMartin