Here's another view:



As yet, no opinions...

Dave,

There is a doc. that I run accross before I posted earlier on this. I'll see if I can't find this for Lawrence.
Basiclly it backed up my earlier postings. I just don't bookmark it like a knucklehead

Lawrence,

I must admit this post has been informative to say the least as far as the opinions on this go.

I went back and looked for some more ammo to back up my earlier post when you first ask the question. As Dave stated, until some who was there, or a document surfaces this will be an open subject of debate for years to come. Well, I think I may have found that document.

Now having said that, there may be more question put forward then there are answers.

http://www.magma.ca/~track/

CMHQ Guidelines for the Canadian Army Overseas. This is a CD-ROM that as been done. And up on said site there is a sample of document for marking of equipment.

This may post date Dieppe however, but this maybe pre-Dieppe also. It something to look into.

I admire the passion on this subject for perfection and wish you the best.

Let me know if the link is bad. I'll try to find a good one for you.

Lawrence, I am not sure who it was that I spoke to. The way it came about is that there is a Mk.III being restored in the U.S.....maybe at Ft. Knox?.....I was contacted to assist in supplying some info on the markings required and I had pointed them in the direction of the Barry Beldham drawings. Someone at the KOCR museum got in touch with me while I was at the museum and told me that Barry's drawings indicated some wrong colours....I can't remember who it was. Anyway, that person was also in contact with the U.S. resoration crew and was trying to provide info to them based on what was available in the Regimental archives.

If you are still in contact with Al you might request that he send out an email to members of the Regimental Association and/or include a request for marking information in the next Regimental newsletter if they have one.....that way it will get out to Dieppe veterans and you might just get a first hand answer.

As a potential additional source of information has anyone looked at the markings on the Calgary Tanks Shermans after they were reformed and fighting in Italy in 1943? I am curious if the same markings were used.....therefore the same colours.

In the book....The Royal Canadian Armoured Corps, An Illustrated History.....there are some very good images of Operation Jubilee (the name of the Dieppe Raid) "Calgary Tanks" Churchills....the images are credited to the KOCR museum and a Mr. Hugh Henry...maybe Al knows how to contact Hugh?

I agree Ron,

Barry does super work....but in my research of Canadian Centurions he did get the callsigns colours of the four colour Canadian Centurion Mk. 11s incorrect....his drawings show they are white.....when they were actually yellow......looking at B&W reference photos it is very easy to get yellow and white mixed up......as we are potentially seeing with the Churchill markings.

The sample pages are for trucks and don't cover armour, but the whole CD may well do so. I've sorted the link in the quote above for anyone that want's to go for it!

Thx Dave,

I get it to work some of time, other times?? I must be forgeting to put a : or // somewhere.

Thx again.

Like I said It's a start.

Just found another link that quotes 1942 Armoured Corps rules for British and Commonwealth tanks:

http://northirishhorse.net/articles-2/Insignia/Churchills.html

It would appear that the numbers were white and the border red/yellow/blue according to seniority.




( Or has this document already been quoted, and I've missed it - in which case we're all back at post 1 again!!!!)

Hi Dave,

That's the site I was referring to that had the color pix and was the reason I posted a reply.

I think I added to the maylay instead of helping.

Hi Dave,

I've once read an official statement dictating how the ring sizes/proportions of the aerial recognition roundels on the engine deck of commonwealth tanks should be painted... I've tried that on an M4 deck (using an accurate kit). Using actual wartime photos of an M4A2 deck with a roundel, I "fitted" that against the official regulation stating the proportions and size (scaled down to 1/35) - I can safely tell you, they did not match, especially the proportions, nevermind the size. And I didn't just derive my conclusion from only one deck but two, and you know how rare it is to see a deck with roundels upclose...

What's a written rule may not necessary be carried out to the dot actually. There will be variations and deviations alike. For me, what was actually painted carries more weight than what was dictated in the regulations. Of course, I'm not saying lets forget the official regulations, but we have be extremely precise with the timelines as they do change over time.

Either way, I think the only way out of this in the end may be providing colour options (as suggested earlier). I'm not against this idea, but sacrifices will be made in the form of precious space... That's why I rather take this debate out in the open until we have exhausted all options before succumbing to the last resort...

Okay, a good night sleep and my head's clearer now. Maybe I shouldn't have written the previous post as my intentions could have been misunderstood. I just wanted to point out that there are many a times things didn't turn out as what they should have been... Thus resulting in a lot of confusions.

I know all of you participated in this discussion mainly because you want to help. For that, I'm very grateful. I'm not sure when we'll able to sort this out in our life time, unless of course the veterans are able to chip in while their memories are still solid (Jason, I think we have to count on you... ). Time is of essence, lets not wait until our older generations pass on. When that happens, all indeed will be lost forever... I know this is just a hobby to a number of you, nobody needs to be that anal-retentive as me... Yes, I need a life, but then again - this is what I do for a living... If I do take a break, it will be just going out for a walk and breathe some fresh air, or talk to my kid and wife about other things. I do that regularly, so no worries there. No hard feelings everyone (if there were any, I just want to make sure), all for the sake of historical accuracy and this hobby we so passionately indulge ourselves!