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Campaigns
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Monochromatica
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 08:34 PM UTC
Bear with me...

As we all know, colors were not discovered until sometime in the late 1940s to early 1950s. We have more than enough substantial photographic and video evidence to prove this. Colors first began to sporadically appear sometime during WWII, as we have very few videos and photos that are colored. This might have had something to do with radiation from a-bomb tests, beats me. Eventually colors became more common and sometime in the 1970s, they completely took over. Everything we see today is in color but let's not forget that back in the day everything was black and white or in shades of brown.
This leads me to my campaign suggestion: I think it would be good if everyone out there would finally build a model in an accurate black & white or sepia finish, exactly the way they were when they were in service. I never really understood what all the fuss was about with applying the 'correct' color to a model, there weren't any colors, look at the photos!

*Getting serious now*

I just think it would be a fun thing to paint a model in a b&w or sepia finish because frankly, I've never seen it done before. I haven't really considered a start date for this campaign or how long it'll run because I want to get some people's feedback first. Basically, you can enter any model, figure or diorama from anywhere between the late 19th century to let's say the Korean war. This was the time when black & white photos were still the most common. I'd open it to all scales.

So: the final result of a model, for example should look like this:



Please post feedback and suggestions!

Sebastian
endrju007
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Wojewodztwo Podkarpackie, Poland
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 08:58 PM UTC
As the idea is great I do think that making it diorama campaign would be even better. Why? Because if you have standalone model painted in black-white or sepia tones than all you have is strangely painted model. Placing it on black-white diorama/vignette would show the point of strange painting without need for explaining the idea on the label.
What do you think?

Second thing – 2010… not a day sooner...

Andrzej
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 08:58 PM UTC
Do you mean actually painting the kit with different hues of white, grey or black to get the B&W effect? That will be very difficult. Is it easier to paint as normal but only enhanced the picture from colour pics to B&W or Sepia by programs?

Paul
endrju007
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Wojewodztwo Podkarpackie, Poland
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 09:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Do you mean actually painting the kit with different hues of white, grey or black to get the B&W effect? That will be very difficult. Is it easier to paint as normal but only enhanced the picture from colour pics to B&W or Sepia by programs?

Paul


Sure thing it would be easier... but where's the fun in it?

EDIT: I also think that it would be great practice for shading.
Self-Propelled
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 09:06 PM UTC
Andrzej: You may have a point, it would look a lot more natural on a b&w diorama yet I would like to leave it up to every modeler to decide for himself.

Paul: Like Andrzej said, I think painting a model in colors and then just enhancing the photos would be besides the point. I admit that achieving a realistic result will be difficult because you'll have to work with very many different shades of just one color but then again this campaign is more about testing your painting skills rather than building something tremendously complicated. Your effort would therefor go into the painting of the model. I think trying to focus on lights and shadows, which is key to success in this case will greatly improve people's understanding of how light hits an object and will therefore improve our ability to use different shades of one color to make our models more interesting.

As for the starting date: Yes, no sooner than 2010. There are already too many campaigns scheduled and I just wanted to post the idea now. It came to me yesterday evening and I just want to share it before I forget about it again.
endrju007
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Wojewodztwo Podkarpackie, Poland
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 09:24 PM UTC
I just thought about something... It would require forced point of view with determined light angle. Don't you think so? I think that the difference in shades should be so strong that painting the model in the same way all around would also be not too convincing. Forced perspective and light angle would also be necessary.

Andrzej
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 09:26 PM UTC
I don't mean to be negative but no matter how we paint our kit / diorama, the only way to share it is to take pictures of it first. I was just thinking, you can always re-live the good old days by taking B&W pics with your digital camera. Since we do not live in a B&W world, it will be difficult. That's what I meant.

Paul
lespauljames
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Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 09:58 PM UTC
Wow, spooky, when i came to this site i had the same idea, and everyone though i was on about pre shading! count me in, i think i'll try using oils.
pigsty
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 12:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bear with me...

As we all know, colors were not discovered until sometime in the late 1940s to early 1950s. We have more than enough substantial photographic and video evidence to prove this. Colors first began to sporadically appear sometime during WWII, as we have very few videos and photos that are colored. This might have had something to do with radiation from a-bomb tests, beats me. Eventually colors became more common and sometime in the 1970s, they completely took over. Everything we see today is in color but let's not forget that back in the day everything was black and white or in shades of brown.



This was all explained in Calvin and Hobbes - the world was originally black-and-white but spontaneously turned colourful in the middle of the 20th century. Why didn't black-and-white photographs change? Because they were colour photographs of black-and-white objects, of course!

Fascinating idea, and it will be interesting to see how people cope with the way tonal values can be very similar while hues are markedly different ...

In-progress pictures might discourage cheating with digital woscum.
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 01:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As we all know, colors were not discovered until sometime in the late 1940s to early 1950s. We have more than enough substantial photographic and video evidence to prove this. Colors first began to sporadically appear sometime during WWII, as we have very few videos and photos that are colored. This might have had something to do with radiation from a-bomb tests, beats me. Eventually colors became more common and sometime in the 1970s, they completely took over. Everything we see today is in color but let's not forget that back in the day everything was black and white or in shades of brown.



Not quite correct. Cheap, extremely affordable color processing replaced B&W in the 60's to 70's, but color photography has been around for a long time.
A short history of color photgraphy.

1861: The first known permanent color photograph is taken by James Clerk Maxwell
1877: Louis Ducos du Hauron experiments with subtractive color (see below)
1891: Lippmann process
1896: Joly color screen process
1907 (patented 1904): Autochrome
1908: Dufaycolor (color transparencies)
1908: Finlay Colour process (additive process using an RGB filter)
1909–1915: Prokudin-Gorskii's color documentary photography in Russia
1912: Paget process
1920 (patented 1905): Tri-Color carbon prints (by Louis Ducos du Hauron since 1862 and Charles Cros since 1867), it lasts to 1960 by Autotype
1935: Kodachrome (16mm motion picture film)
1936: Kodachrome (35mm still film)
1936: Agfacolor (transparency film)
1940: Ektachrome (slide film)
1942: Kodacolor (color negative process for still photography and later motion pictures)
1946: Dye transfer prints (imbibition process)
1960s: Cibachrome, now officially known as Ilfochrome.
1965: Polacolor by Polaroid

This type of a Campaign is an interesting idea, and I certainly do not see a major problem of taking a simple basic kit, and deciding before hand it's single light source and following through to photos, after all that's what figure painters strive for, so why couldn't or shouldn't a vehicle be painted in the same manner.
endrju007
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Wojewodztwo Podkarpackie, Poland
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 01:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

In-progress pictures might discourage cheating with digital woscum.


You don't need that for two reasons:
1. I do trust that noone would cheat instead of heaving fun...
2. All you need is to take a picture of finished diorama/model with something not B&W standing next to it... I know that I could easily turn just a part of picture to B&W but it would give effect different from taking a pic of something painted in B&W.

Andrzej
HARV
#012
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 02:05 AM UTC
Anthony "captfue" Fuentes did this vignette for the Tommygun Terror campaign in 2008.

http://hfmodeling.kitmaker.net/forums/118090&page=1

I just thought I would share it as I thought he did a fantastic job with it.

HARV
Self-Propelled
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 02:12 AM UTC
Andrzej: You raised a very good point about the angle of the light hitting the model. This could be done with a lot of work and is very involved and quite difficult. However, not to discourage anyone, you don't have to paint your models like this. After all, the models painted with many different colors, even those from the pros aren't painted this way. It's just hard to try and paint a 3d object in a 2d way but I would definitely like to see someone pull it off!

Sean: I'm also excited to see how everyone will approach the task, I don't think anyone has any experience with it. That's also what I think is so great about it: you don't have to worry about doing something wrong or right because nobody yet knows what the right approach is.

Dave: Thank you for the history lesson on the subject, I had no idea. I really thought that color photos (other than sepia) first appeared in the 1930s or so.

As for cheating: I would then seriously ask what the whole point in participating is. It's about learning how light is broken on different surfaces, that's it.
I think that there are many good image editors that could easily make a fake without anyone noticing it. It's not that hard to edit a b&w photo to make a part of it colored.
endrju007
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Wojewodztwo Podkarpackie, Poland
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 02:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Andrzej: You raised a very good point about the angle of the light hitting the model. This could be done with a lot of work and is very involved and quite difficult. However, not to discourage anyone, you don't have to paint your models like this. After all, the models painted with many different colors, even those from the pros aren't painted this way. It's just hard to try and paint a 3d object in a 2d way but I would definitely like to see someone pull it off!


As Dave mentioned few posts ago right next to very good history lesson (thanks Dave - nice set of facts to dig into... encyclopedia here I come! ), figure painters have a nice and easy way to check where to put highlights and shadows - all you have to do is to check the light angle, place the figure (model) under this light and see how it should look after painting.
It could be easily done for the purpose of this campaign: place the unpainted model/diorama under a strong source of light so all shadows are visible, take a picture and turn it to b&w - you will not get the full how-to-paint reference (because shades of grey will depend on original material color) but it will give you very strong starting point.
What do you thing about this technique?

Andrzej
Self-Propelled
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 02:45 AM UTC
It sounds like a very interesting thing to try out and I hope that someone will but I wouldn't make it the mandatory technique to use. I'd love to have this campaign finish with as many different results as possible. I think that painting a model in a conventional way without taking the angle of the light into account would also look interesting. I scanned the web for some cool models and turned the pictures into b&w and it looked pretty cool.

I guess in the end it's all about deciding for yourself if you want to make a model in b&w the way it would look like on a photo (with light coming from just one point) or to make it look as if it was 3-dimensional in a b&w world.

Now that we've sort of discussed the techniques for this way of painting a model, the next step for this campaign would be to have people post whether they'd be interested in signing up.

Cheers!
CReading
#001
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 02:59 AM UTC
Years ago a great diorama builder, Barry Gazsos, lead the way with his magnificent piece "Bracketed"


Unfortunately, Barry retired from modeling to pursue other interests and this diorama was destroyed by a shipping company on it's way back from a show.

Cheers,
Charles
Self-Propelled
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 04:57 AM UTC
That is an excellent model, just like the one Randy posted. I think these examples will offer many people some insight into what can be achieved with a b&w paint scheme.
Tonyfr
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 07:38 AM UTC
Count me in! I would like to try this. I always liked doing black and white photography and drawings. I like the idea of taking a picture of the black and shades of gray model with some color in the background. I would probably try to mimic something from an old TV show.
Self-Propelled
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Bayern, Germany
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 10:43 PM UTC
Okay, so let me just post a quick overview of the campaign for those who are interested:

Scale: Open to all scales
Starts: January 1st, 2010
Ends: October 1st, 2010

Rules:

Build a vehicle as a stand-alone model or in conjunction with a diorama (figures are also allowed) in any scale and paint it in a black and white or sepia finish. The approach you chose to paint the model is irrelevant, as long as the result is either b&w or sepia. You may choose any vehicle except for those in service after the Korean war. Basically, if it's been photographed in black and white you can build it.
You must submit a photo of your completed model(s) to the photo gallery, as well as one photo of the subject standing next to a colored object. You may enter as many models as you like but will receive only one ribbon once the campaign ends.

So far a couple people have shown interest but I would still like to confirm if they want to participate. If you're name on the list has a (?) behind it please post whether you're up for this one or not and if you're not on the short list and would like to join, please say so:

endrju007
lespauljames
Grumpyoldman
Tonyfr
Self-Propelled

Cheers!
endrju007
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Wojewodztwo Podkarpackie, Poland
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Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 11:52 PM UTC
Ah, why not... count me in!
pigsty
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Posted: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 06:29 AM UTC
Not me, I'm afraid - way, way beyond me!
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 10:26 AM UTC
I'll give it a shot, got nothing to loose, and may give a few laughs along the way.
(besides I just picked up a tutorial on painting Monochromatic figures.)
lespauljames
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Posted: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 12:30 PM UTC
sure!
panzergoth
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Posted: Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 02:47 PM UTC
Thanks for posting that photo, Charles. When I started reading this thread I was going to mention that I had seen this Diorama at a show in the past; I think it may have been AMPS or MFCA. Definitely one of the most imaginitive and clever pieces that I have seen, and Dave; thanks for posting the history of color photography. The opening statement just seemed wrong because I have seen color from the 40's. Sounds like a good topic for a build , though.
Self-Propelled
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Posted: Friday, June 19, 2009 - 08:16 AM UTC
So far we've got 5 people, we need at least 5 more. Some people out there might be discouraged 'cause it's kind of a radically different thing to try out but it's all about fun and with 9 months there's plenty of time to try out different things if one approach doesn't work out. Come on people!
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