Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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Australian M577
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 07:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The setting makes it appear that it is in the not too distant past but I cannot see any vehicle markings on the track.



Acording to the photo on defence web site 8th March 2004. Go with the .30cal.

http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2004/mar/080304b.cfm
"The Army has used the Darwin-Adelaide railway to move 35 armoured vehicles to Port Augusta for Exercise Southern Leopard to be conducted this month."

Interesting to still see a Phase II ASLAV in the back ground. Initally I would have assumed 98ish. But the RWS on the ASLAV PC's?
Jason
Cartyb
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Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 11:21 PM UTC
Jason,
Thanks much for the info. I liked the look of the 30 cal. on the track.

Carty
aussiemodeler
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 11:47 PM UTC
cheers jas. thought it was 04. all good
grimmo
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Posted: Friday, September 25, 2009 - 01:32 AM UTC
looking fantastic! very good work. where did the genny come from?
Cartyb
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Posted: Friday, September 25, 2009 - 06:45 AM UTC
The genny is straight from the Tamiya kit. I used a picture similar to this one as a basis. Not sure where the one I actually used is at now.

I believe Wayne provided me with this pic. I added some more of the cage,not exactly dead on but looks good mounted on the tank. I added some homemade brass parts and borrowed bolts for the muffler holders, wrapped the cables in tape to give it some more realism, moved the fuel tank cap to the correct end of the fuel tank and also turned around the lifting bar as it is backwards in the Tamiya kit. I also used a generic Archer dry transfer data plate for some "color"


lighthorseman
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 01:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The setting makes it appear that it is in the not too distant past but I cannot see any vehicle markings on the track.



Acording to the photo on defence web site 8th March 2004. Go with the .30cal.

http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2004/mar/080304b.cfm
"The Army has used the Darwin-Adelaide railway to move 35 armoured vehicles to Port Augusta for Exercise Southern Leopard to be conducted this month."

Interesting to still see a Phase II ASLAV in the back ground. Initally I would have assumed 98ish. But the RWS on the ASLAV PC's?
Jason



jas you could go with either the 30 cal or the mag 58 on a platt mount i kniow we got ours at CSR end of 03 start of 04. i dont know about 1st harmless tho i would assume around about the same timeframe so you could go for either the mag 58 or .30 cal without being out on the timeline
Cartyb
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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 01:48 AM UTC
Is the plat mount common on most Aussie armour now. I have one I could use. Or should I just do a kind of generic one.
WayneB
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 10:17 AM UTC
Question for the guys here. Can you mount a .30 cal on a plat mount? and secondly does anyone ever do it? When I hear plat mount I think MAG 58 - right?

Carty this question might be a little too detailed for you as I understand you are building your track from a mix of vehicles however, what tracks do you plan to fit to the vehicle? The only reason I’m asking is that the T130E1 tracks which came with your kit were phased out in Australia around ~2000 when the fleet upgraded to Diehl 513b. Just checking as you would not see a plat equipped vehicle with the old style tracks….. The way your kit is laid out at the moment you could go either way. Old style swing arm flex mount and T130 tracks or platt and Diehl tracks……

If you want to upgrade the Diehl tracks can be scoured from AFV club or Perfect Scale Modellbau.

Details details details.

Good to see you moving along on this project!

FYI the generator pic was first posted here by Bill over at the ASLAV thread also on this site.

W
jasmils
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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 11:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Question for the guys here. Can you mount a .30 cal on a plat mount? and secondly does anyone ever do it? When I hear plat mount I think MAG 58 - right?


No the 30 cal won't fit. Mag58 yes and Minimi.


Quoted Text

If you want to upgrade the Diehl tracks can be scoured from AFV club or Perfect Scale Modellbau.


No and yes. The AFV Club ones are the German Version with offset track pads and grousers attached to the end conectors. Perfect Scale are the better option and they also come with the sprockets.

Cheers Jason
lighthorseman
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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 02:35 PM UTC


not all units switched to diehl track up north and if memory serves and going by that reference photo of cartys 1st armoured didnt i know 5/7 did at some stage 1 csr certainly didnt
and im pretty sure 8/12 and 1cer vehicles didnt either
Cartyb
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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 02:58 PM UTC
Ahh!. I took a look at the photos I have. Everything with a plat mount has the newer tracks. I am going with the older T130E1 track so I guess I will go with a simple swing mount. I have a few pictures that show a pretty good representation of one. Should have one built and on the model in a day or two. Thanks for the info everyone. More to come.
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 03:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

i stand corrected
which unit??




It's one of the 1 BDE HQ vehicles which used to be 104 Sig Sqn many years ago. From memory they operated 4 (at least when I was in 1 Bde in the mid 90's) . Their most famous vehicle being Conan which was stolen by a unit member in the late 80's and driven through Sydney from Holsworthy and was stopped on the harbour bridge where the police shot the unarmed driver who was suffering from undiagnosed depression.
The scheme and markings are right for a late 90's vehicle but the antennas are not. The bases would be RAVEN SCRS family and not the older VRC 12 MX 6707 AMU's. They would be typically two AB F100 HF (sometimes 3) and up to four AB F200 VHF. The 1 BDE Skippy insignia is missing with the Skippy on Crossed Swords with a 1 over it. The other tac sign was a 10 on Black on OD with a black square border.
Cheers
Al
WayneB
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 03:01 AM UTC
Gday guys, I thought all 1 BDE vehicles (for carty that the Australian Regular Army) switched to Diehl track circa late 1990’s / early 2000’s but Mark’s right when you look at the photo of the M577 on the train down to Cultana in 2004 it clearly has the old T130 tracks, yet it appears to have tac signs on it in a style which I have not seen on reserve unit’s vehicles….. I would have guessed it’s a 1 ARMD vehicle like you guys said earlier.

I’m, a bit confused. Mark seem to be saying that only some 1 BDE units were upgraded. Can anyone shed light on this?

Cheers to one and all

FYI Carty your VRC 12 MX 6707 AMU's (the antenna mounting units) are fine for a 1 ARMD vehicle at any time before the mid to late 90’s when the army upgraded to the vercks radio system (spelt phonetically) you would need about 4 of these. The HF antenna’s I am a bit more wobbely on.

W
Cartyb
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Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 03:36 AM UTC
From the above I guess I have the wrong AMU for the time period I am shooting for. Does anyone have a pic or description of the new mount. Is it similar to what is on the Aussie M1 or ASLAV-25. I do have some of those available. I was not aware of such a large difference. I really do like this process as I get a ton of great info to work with. Thanks in advance for the info.
WayneB
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 07:56 AM UTC
C, I am pretty sure the comms gear is the same in the M113 and ASLAV family of vehicles. Abrams I have no idea. There is a great discussion on the ASLAV going on here: https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/120708&page=4 About 4 pages in there is a bit of discussion on AMUs.

You need VHF antennas x 4 ish (this is for normal vehicle to vehicle communication)
Photobucket

Photobucket

And probably only 1 HF antenna (for speaking with the higher headquarters and longer range work)
Photobucket

Photo links were all copied from that page.

W
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 11:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text


And probably only 1 HF antenna (for speaking with the higher headquarters and longer range work)
Photobucket

Photo links were all copied from that page.

W



The BDE and Cav ACV's of 1 BDE had at least two HF SCCRS (Singel Channel Combat Radio System aka project RAVEN, later to embody Pintail and Wagtail ( F-700 & 500 families -VRCCS refers to the interconnecting harness/intecom system - I was on the Project team RAVEN SCCRS).
The multiple HF's were needed in the NT where the operating distances were huge (we used to spread a recce regt over 700-1000 km) and relay was quite the norm before the introduction of satellite gear.
The last time I saw a1 BDE ACV's it had 3 F100's (HF) fitted and four F 200.
Operators of the 577 within 1 BDE are/were (depending on timeframe) BDE HQ, 1 CER, 5 & 7 RAR, 1 ARMD, 8/12 MDM and 2 CAV Regt (fully replaced by ASLAV in the late 90's).
Cheers

Cartyb
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Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 01:23 PM UTC
Does anyone know the appoximate height (length) of the HF and VHF antenna? 2 meters, 3 meters?
lighthorseman
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Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 01:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

i stand corrected
which unit??




It's one of the 1 BDE HQ vehicles which used to be 104 Sig Sqn many years ago. From memory they operated 4 (at least when I was in 1 Bde in the mid 90's) . Their most famous vehicle being Conan which was stolen by a unit member in the late 80's and driven through Sydney from Holsworthy and was stopped on the harbour bridge where the police shot the unarmed driver who was suffering from undiagnosed depression.
The scheme and markings are right for a late 90's vehicle but the antennas are not. The bases would be RAVEN SCRS family and not the older VRC 12 MX 6707 AMU's. They would be typically two AB F100 HF (sometimes 3) and up to four AB F200 VHF. The 1 BDE Skippy insignia is missing with the Skippy on Crossed Swords with a 1 over it. The other tac sign was a 10 on Black on OD with a black square border.
Cheers
Al



the 104 sig sqn(1csr) vehicles now have the callsigns in the correct spot as per SOVOs this is going back as far as 2000

cheers mark
lighthorseman
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Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 01:41 PM UTC
carty the vhf antenna is about 2 and a bit metres and come in 2 elements

the hf comes in about 4-5 elements so you are looking at about 4-5 m

hope this helps


Cartyb
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Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 03:10 PM UTC
Thanks Mark. I saw on the ASLAV forum that there was a rather large diameter antenna in one of the pictures. Is this the HF antenna? Or, Is the HF antenna about the same as the VHF but longer? Seems to me that a 5 meter antenna with the same diameter as the VHF would be awful floppy. Sorry about all the questions but I am an airdale so all of my radio antennas are strapped to the helo and I get all the altitude I need.
Cartyb
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Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 04:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gday guys, I thought all 1 BDE vehicles (for carty that the Australian Regular Army) switched to Diehl track circa late 1990’s / early 2000’s but Mark’s right when you look at the photo of the M577 on the train down to Cultana in 2004 it clearly has the old T130 tracks, yet it appears to have tac signs on it in a style which I have not seen on reserve unit’s vehicles….. I would have guessed it’s a 1 ARMD vehicle like you guys said earlier.

I’m, a bit confused. Mark seem to be saying that only some 1 BDE units were upgraded. Can anyone shed light on this?

Cheers to one and all

FYI Carty your VRC 12 MX 6707 AMU's (the antenna mounting units) are fine for a 1 ARMD vehicle at any time before the mid to late 90’s when the army upgraded to the vercks radio system (spelt phonetically) you would need about 4 of these. The HF antenna’s I am a bit more wobbely on.

W



I know, I know. Coming back to the plat mount question. I am also a little confused about the set up so here is my question. I have corrected the AMUs to what is currently in use. I am putting the older T130E tracks on. Can I get away with a plat mount and MAG58 or do I need the swing mount and .30 cal. I would like to beat this dead horse until there are only scraps left. Ha.
lighthorseman
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2009 - 10:43 AM UTC
carty. To answer the question on the platt mount with T130 E track it can be done. your vehicle wont be wrong with this configuration. going by the pic you were using a s a referance that 1st armoured regiment vehicle had T130 E track and you could mount a platt mount with mag 58.
Cartyb
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2009 - 04:51 PM UTC
Thanks!!!
Cartyb
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Posted: Monday, October 26, 2009 - 10:49 AM UTC
Been a while but there has been some progress. Have been working on some rucks for the stowage. Kind of scratch built some Aussie style packs from some photos. Think I came pretty close. See the pics below for my master and a copy I made and painted up.


If anyone cares, here are the colors I used for the DPCU camo on the pack. All colors are Tamiya Acrylics.
Tan base: 6 parts XF-57 Buff and 1 part XF-44 Khaki
Dark Green: XF-27 Black Green
Light Green: 3 parts XF-5 Flat Green and 1 part XF-2 Flat White
Dark Brown: XF-68 Nato Brown
Red Brown: 3 parts XF-3 Flat Yellow + 2 Parts XF-7 Flat Red + 1 part XF-64 Red Brown

Here is a close up so you can see the camo better


Some pics of the DPCU have a really light base tan while others look more green. You can probably adjust the Khaki to Buff ratio to get what you are looking for.
Sould have some pics of the track soon. Almost done.
Cartyb
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Posted: Monday, October 26, 2009 - 02:48 PM UTC
Here it is. Finished for the most part. The only thing I may still change are the tracks. I used the rubber band type from AFV Club and I do not like the way they look. Too tight on one side, too loose on the other. I plan on using the individual link set from AFV Club since I already have that set in hand. Sorry about the pictures. The colors are off and things look shiny when they really are not when you see the kit. Not sure how to compensate for it.

Added the PLAT mount with MAG-58. Used the Trumpeter Set.

Also changed the AMU's to current kit. These came from the Mouse House MEAO Comms set. I added 3 VHF/UHF AMU's and 2 HF AMU's. Also on the kit is the track bag from Mouse House's Complete Equipment Schedule set and ration boxes as well.


I used Mouse House's plastic storage boxes in the rack on top. This crew decided they were tired of the metal chests letting in water and dust so they switched. I modified the tent from the Tamiya one supplied.

The jerry cans are from Tamiya and the water cans are from Mouse House.


Thanks to everyone who helped me with the project. The tips, suggestions and corrections were very helpful. Hopfully I ended up with something that looks like the real deal. When I end up changing the tracks I will try to post some new pics. Also hoping Echelon will get their camo nets on the market soon as I would like to add some nets as well. But for now. This is it.