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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
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Büffel first impressions
chnoone
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Posted: Friday, September 11, 2009 - 09:48 PM UTC
Hello everyone,

I picked up my Büffel from PS directly yesterday, first one to be "officially" delivered, and boy this thing is big !!!
I have made some quick pics as to compare the size of this kit with a Berge Panzer 2 I am almost done with.








I hope I was able to give some first insight on size, quality and detail of the kit.
This kit was on the top of my wish list for a long time, and as Jason mentioned, it was really worth waiting for !

Knowing that most published models of this tank will be from the German Army (excellent decals and PE set included), I think I shall make a Dutch version at first.
Calling out to everyone for help, I would need more in on the Dutch version ... maybe some details pics of the smoke dischargers ?
What I really like is the running gear provided directly from Tamiya making things a little easier.
Time to try the new Bronco tracks I would think!

Cheers
Christopher
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 03:12 PM UTC
Very nice quick first.....and your Leo 1 ARV is looking very nice as well.

Good point about the Dutch version....for sure the grenade launchers are different.

Try this for starters.....

http://www.primeportal.net/recovery/ulrich_wrede/buffel/

http://www.primeportal.net/apc/leopards.htm#leo2recov
bison126
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 06:35 PM UTC
Thanks for sharing those pics Christopher. It will be hard to resist to this appealling beauty
alexcheung
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 07:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for sharing those pics Christopher. It will be hard to resist to this appealling beauty



Yup, actually I am planning to get my copy. And I believe I can throw my OLD Elite set away with no tear.
chnoone
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 10:30 PM UTC
Thankx Jason,

pics are just what I needed, so I can use the discharger from an YPR kit and the dutch have apparently also left the German warning labels "Achtung" on the jib crane, so I don‘t have to discard the very impressive decals provided!

.....and Alex I believe it is safe now to trash the Elite kit!... and don‘t believe U are the only one, welcome to the club!

Started with the interior and all is straight forward, not much cleaning up necessary till now but far more detail than in the Leo1 ARV. The upper and lower hull parts need a little sanding and fit together perfectly.
I shall have some new pics of the finished interior for U in the next 2 or 3 days.

Something different, out of the topic I always wondered about and maybe Olivier is the perfect guy to ask, but why hasn‘t the French Army got any Bridgelayers like the Biber or the Wolverine in service?

I will keep U guys posted
Cheers
Christopher
abrams1980
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Posted: Monday, September 14, 2009 - 02:09 AM UTC
wow this is GREAT

thanks
chnoone
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Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 11:58 PM UTC
Been busy with the interior




On this project the interior is not my prime objective, so in the beginning I actually though of buying the kit without it .
But when I saw the kit for real, especially the size drivers opening, it would very difficult to hide the emptiness behind a figure.
Price wise there is not much of a difference anyway.
So I only detailed the interior to leave a proper impression with figures in the hatches and/or leaving one side door open... maybe?
The book on modern German ARV‘s from TANKOGRAD is very helpful on either the Leo 1 or the Leo 2 ARV, the interior is very well documented and tons on cables and wires running and hanging around in the real thing. I know someone will put them all in but I will give it a pass this time.
I must say that the PS instruction sheets are getting better with everyone of their kits, likewise the decals, the ones for the panel boards are, and look very impressive.
So for this project it was more down to spraying the interior white, the radios in green, some wires in black, adding some colour to the knobs and switches, a little wash an dirt, the decals, some scratches and that is about it.
Just like the Leo 1 ARV, the interior offers a lot of potential but as for the time being there‘just not enough modern figures around to plug all the openings to a satisfactory level. I have customized the kneeing Verlinden Iraqi POW now so often it‘s starting to get boring.
Never the less, I really enjoy the kit very much and there will be the next SITREP in a couple of days.

Cheers
Christopher

afv_rob
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Posted: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 12:36 AM UTC
Wow that interior work looks really good! Lots of nice details to see through the hatches! A friend of mine built the Elite Buffel, looked like a real dog I think he replaced much of the lower hull with Tamiya leopard parts.
chnoone
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Posted: Sunday, September 20, 2009 - 11:48 PM UTC
Hi guys !

Been a little busy the last couple of days.
The top and bottom hull parts are now together, just minor filling and adjusting needed in the front and a little more in the back, but nothing worth really mentioning.
Over the last year or so I started to change my habits on constructing a kit, the usual or standard approach would be to build all segments completely then paint and weather etc.
Last year I built around 4x M1‘s, 2x Leo 2A6, 1x Warrior Fitter, 1x Berge Panzer 2 all in NATO camouflage, plus some additional paint jobs for friends, also Leo‘s and M1‘s. I don‘t really get a kick out the assembly itself or the painting, when a Tank is built and painted that‘s when my passion comes alive... the detailing.
So to break the monotony of the construction process I now tend to finish the paint job with the segment I am just working on, for example I would finish the hull first and then start with the turret or vice versa. This gives me the opportunity to choose the right colors, PE parts, do some scratch building and the overall level of detail. Once painted this serves a great visual reminder to emphasize on the next section which does not mean that I will not go back to do some improvements in the overall build.
In this case I finished the jib crane and the dozer blade first which also helps me to "get my teeth" into a more complex kit like this one.
The assembly of both parts is without any challenges except that U are dealing with resin as the dominant material, some extra detail was added to the mirror attachment on the jib based on reference pics, U will need to attach a small L- type baseplate to the front right-hand side of part # 5 and add some plastic rod to connect the two ending arms on part #88, make sure that the supplemented rod, which allows the mirror to be turned when operating the crane, is diagonal !


I tend to mix a larger amount of NATO green utilizing XF67 as a base, I would add a small amount of XF71 Cockpit Green and XF55 Deck Tan to lighten things up and a drop or two of XF3 Flat Yellow and XF5 Flat Green.
My approach to NATO green is to mix a base color closely resembling the fresh coat applied when leaving the factories, XF67 is a to dark for my taste. German and US tank Nato colors tend to fade after a while as we all know, the US get a more light olive-green touch to them but the German have a more " light greenish" complexion. Either way my mixed NATO green tone just serves as base colour for the individual project adjusting it to whatever tone I would like to interpret from my reference pics. I also never use a mixed colour twice, every project gets their own unique tone.
While reading about Jason's beautiful M109 in the latest AFV mag, to my surprise he finds XF67 being to light, there U go ... it‘s all in the eyes of the viewer. I like that "surgical glove" thing by the way.
After airbrushing the bottom hull the running gear, crane and the blade all was seal with a coat of Johnson‘s Klear, making things on the following pics a little glossy for the time being.






So far so good
Cheers
Christopher
chnoone
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Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 12:30 AM UTC
....some more pics




Cheers
Christopher
chnoone
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Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 01:16 AM UTC
Back with some progress....

Added the welding on the hull - grill



Starting the side skirts I usually glue the first L- profile flush with the hull.



Next step is to adjust and fit the side skirt to the first L- profile using PVA glue on the profile itself and careful amount, just little "dots" of super glue on the attachment points on the skirt. I always use PVA glue for any type of side skirts including PE ones, it gives me time to align things and is quite strong when dried. Most of the accessories attached to my models (gear, ID panels, figures etc.) are fixed with PVA glue, and U can easily remove it again without damaging the paint.
When this process is set I then add another, second L- profile with superglue to strengthen things some more.



I have to mention that the last, back side skirt was about 5mm to long, shortening it to size is a 5 min. affair, the funny thing is, when I first use the same skirts from Pro Art Models a couple of year ago I had similar problem. Only that this time the front section was about 5mm to short, again just another 5 min. extending with some plastic rod and relocating the attachment screw.
Side skirts are wicked things!
Otherwise no big deal, this Kit has a real good fit.
After seeing a Dutch Büffel on one of the most recent manoeuver DVD from M&N pictures called "Orange Amiger 2009", two of the ARV‘s had cut out their rear side skirts, so this is what I had to do as well.

Generally speaking, the problem with the German Army is they just stick to regulations, no individual touch what so ever (VERBOTEN!). I remember adding all kinds of useful things to our tracks and many field fabrication later became standard items and upgrades. And this is why I enjoy doing Dutch vehicles so much, as a modeler U have so many options beyond just doing "standard" and they are still Leopards. We got one guy in our model club who used to work in the Tank-Factory in Mainz/Germany, this is where mostly US and other Nato armies did upgrades, refurbishing, repairs etc. to their tanks. With the US military U would give away U‘re track and then draw a "new" one from the depot, but with other nations the crew kept their "own" vehicle.
According to my friend the Canadians were the worst of all, not one tank was the same and after the job was finished all individual attachments had to go back to exactly same spot as they were before being stripped.
And as we all know, this is not the proper German way to conduct business, is it?




For the Dutch version U would need to utilize their type of smoke dischargers, taking these from a AFV YPR kit, I had to shorten the rail guard in length, extend it in width and then add the self fashioned supports.
Jason, thankx again for the links U sent me on this issue!
With part # 47 I had to make a new "slimmer" - baseplate in dimension, added a big screw and relocated it more to the right and up, as seen in this pic, something Dutch specific I believe.
Right now I am working to get the container, storing the spare smoke munitions in to proper shape and size, it‘s located just below the driver on the front slope of the tank. I only have two good pics on this item so it won‘t be 100% correct.
With the rail guard and the container I will probable make some resin casts and thin down things a little add more details etc ... always good to have some spares.



Time up 4 now!
See U next week !

Cheers
Christopher


gcdavidson
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Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 04:15 AM UTC
That is some fine airbrushing!

The BP 1 looks terrific too. I wonder if PS will release the Buffel without an interior?
chnoone
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Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 04:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I wonder if PS will release the Buffel without an interior?



Yes they have, but price wise U would be better off with the interior. Be aware, with open hatches it would look rather empty, and besides I just put the minium effort into my interior.

Cheers
Christopher
Dangeroo
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Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 05:12 AM UTC
Hi Christopher

Yeah the Büffel is huge, especially in comparison with M113, M548 and M109. Just had the pleasure to stand next to one a few days ago. The Swiss army has them as well. And I thought the Bergepanzer based on the Swiss Panzer 68 was big...

Keep up the good work!

Cheers
Stef
Removed by original poster on 09/26/09 - 17:39:41 (GMT).
chnoone
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Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 11:31 PM UTC
Hi guys

Here U see that I have applied the basic Nato 3-tone-camouflage scheme to the Büffel.
I primed the tank with a grey enamel primer from Model Master at first, usually I don‘t use enamels but they seem to stick better to resin than the Tamiya primer.
As previously mentioned I mixed the NATO-green from my "basic Nato-green" stock, the colour was lightened a little with Tamiya Buff. After spraying the kit in Nato-green the original Tamiya Nato- brown and Nato-black was applied.
I always paint my kit like the "real thing", no tools or other accessories that would be attached to the vehicle, just like in the factory.
Modern German AFV‘s are always painted in this manner, even when they go back to the depots for the interval overhauls they are completely stripped to the basics.
If U want build this beauty in the future, do U‘self a big favor and don‘t add and attach everything right away, it will be very tough to try to spray certain areas properly on the engine deck if U do!



The Nato-3-tone camouflage scheme leaves U very little options for induvidual interpretions , thats if U want to make it look correctly as possible.
Below is a Leo 2A6 I built quite recently sticking as closely as possible to the original camouflage scheme of this particular tank from the Pz. Bat. 64 in late 2006, with new smoke discharger but the early 2nd generation light side skirts.
This tank was used as the basic guide to get the proportions on and around the Büffel side skirts and the back area, which would be more or less identical.




After the camouflage "spots" on the skirts were finish I worked my way upwards using a lot of pics as reference to resemble the "true" appearance as closely as possible.
So far so good ... getting the top deck areas right was a little more difficult. There are many good pics on the Enet and in good books but the majority show vehicles in service with dust and dirt, or the jib crane covering up the exact scheme in certain areas.
In contrary to the front, sides and back of this kit, the top and the engine deck in particular represent a camouflage mix of 3 different tanks I have decent reference of.
As U will have noticed I removed the smoke discharger, together with the commanders cupola and the drivers hatch (amongst others) these items will be painted separately and attached at a very late stage during the final assembly and then finalizing the camouflage.
The headlights and their base were drilled and a little wire inserted connecting both and fixed super glue, otherwise they would drop of all the time.
I apply my Nato camouflage with a Badger 200G single action airbrush with a very fine needle. The paint is very heavily diluted with Tamiya thinner, around 15/1 making the paint almost translucent, in a very time consuming process I then apply thin outlines of every camouflage spot till they cover the base coat in the right proportions. This way I avoid any "paint fog" to the surrounding areas and correction to the scheme proportions are easy due to lack of density of the already applied paint.
When every spot is to my satisfaction the outlined areas are then filled in with a "thicker" mix of the appropriate colour.
A washing at later stage together with some pigments will also help "blend in" any oversights.
I have found myself getting lost in reproducing a "hard edged" camouflage on an M1A1 once, making the appearance more like brush painted than sprayed, when viewing the result from a distance it just didn‘t look right. So I try not to get carried away keeping the regulation in mind that the applied camouflage contours have to look edgy from a 20 meter distance on the real thing.





Tracks and the running gear are next.

Cheers
Christopher
chnoone
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Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 09:37 PM UTC
So now we are getting somewhere....

Finishing the other major components for test fitting I shall wash, weather and detail these items separately.
I already added a wash of light and darker brown oil tones to the vehicle after applying the decals that needed to be attached at this stage. The decals provided with the kit go very good, the Dutch markings come from Echelon or Truckline.
Since using Johnsons Klear to seal the basic camouflage, the then applied decals blend in perfectly.
After the washing process I then go over the whole camouflage scheme with a heavy diluted spray of the individual colours again. This helps to tone down the oils a little, blend over any stains, leaving a slight patchy effect breaking up the uniform appearance to a minor extend.
Pleased with the result I then spray another coat of Johnsons Klear to "unitize" everything again and after this has dried the first coat of Vallejo Flat Varnish is applied.
Being impatient to wait for the new Bronco tracks I used the set from Tamiya. These will be weathered in the following stages and since all modern AFV have side skirts covering up most of the running gear they will look just fine.








Reaching this stage it becomes more and more tempting to load the power pack on it‘s back.
The tool and spare part rig is next and then I‘ll see where this is all leading me.
As for now this Büffel represents a track seen with Dutch troops in Germany from around 2002-2006.

Cheers
Christopher
chnoone
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 12:00 AM UTC
Here I have added most of the tools, the rack on the back of the engine deck.
In addition some end-connectors by the crane on the front hull and the Tamiya crowbar in front of the rear basket to the outer right hand side in the back, as seen on Dutch vehicles.
Can‘t confirm this items on German variant though.... was only looking for and at Dutch details.
I continued the washing in a cautious manner, having many metal producer/serial plaques left from the Echelon Leclerc decal set I also put them to good use on various rack and recovery items. Knowing that the German industry loves these things I placed some where they would make sense, although maybe not 100 % authentic.
I didn‘t use the provided tools if I had an equivalent replacement from the Tamiya Leo 2 Kit.
As there is always room for improvement I had to rely on reference pics to get the tools arranged beneath the lids (#97+98) of the tool rack itself. The provided assembly pics, for the tool rack, in the plans can be a bit confusing, but that‘s about all the criticism I can offer on this kit.





Here is another comparison of size between the two Berge Panzers as follow up to the introduction some weeks ago.
The Büffel is a very impressive machine just like the kit itself, PS did an outstanding job with both Berge Panzers and I honestly enjoy building this long awaited tank.




Cheers
Christopher
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 02:46 PM UTC
Excellent build and finishing.....great looking project.

Hopefully Perfect Scale will follow up with a Canadian version as well.
grimmo
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 04:22 PM UTC
Thats looking awesome! very nice! good tip on using PVA for the side skirts!
gcdavidson
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 05:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Excellent build and finishing.....great looking project.

Hopefully Perfect Scale will follow up with a Canadian version as well.



How is the Cdn one different?

Great job BTW. One of the best NATO schemes I've seen.
chnoone
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 09:51 PM UTC

Hopefully Perfect Scale will follow up with a Canadian version as well.[/quote]

How is the Cdn one different?

Thankx guys , happy to have aroused your admirationjavascript:PasteSmiley(':D')

I believe that 2 Büffel are with the troops in Afghanistan...slate armour and all..
any specific add ons ?
Are those the ones U are referring to Jason?
Any in addition to these already in Canada?
Will Canada purchase any "regular" Büffel in the near future? Or will they stick to their upgraded BergePz 2 for the time being?

Cheers
Christopher

LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 05:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Hopefully Perfect Scale will follow up with a Canadian version as well.



How is the Cdn one different?

Thankx guys , happy to have aroused your admirationjavascript:PasteSmiley(':D')

I believe that 2 Büffel are with the troops in Afghanistan...slate armour and all..
any specific add ons ?
Are those the ones U are referring to Jason?
Any in addition to these already in Canada?
Will Canada purchase any "regular" Büffel in the near future? Or will they stick to their upgraded BergePz 2 for the time being?

Cheers
Christopher

[/quote]

Yes, there are two Canadian Buffels in Afghanistan. There are no Buffels in Canada.

The two in Afghanistan have been modified with slat armour and passive add-on armour packages.....most of the slat sections have been removed....either by damage or by the crews to use the crane more effectively. As a result of the slat armour being mounted the grenade dischargers on the front hull were moved to a different location and some other some modifications were made to the Buffels.

The Buffel is called the ARV 3 in Canadian service. I would expect that there will be further ARV 3s purchased or converted from the ex-Dutch Leopard 2A4s......but that won't happen for a few years.
bison126
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 09:21 PM UTC
Christopher,
you've done a stunning job on this one so far. I really need one !
One point though, the black convoy number panels should wear NL and not GE as your model depicts a Dutch Buffel.

Sorry for not having answered your question about the French army not having bridgelayer tanks. In fact, the AMX13 family had a bridgelayer variant.
Concerning the AMX30, trials were conducted but in the end, the project was cancelled and the army chose a wheeled bridge layer. I don't know exactly why.
Maybe the fact that during the Cold War the French forces were acting only as the second echelon of NATO prior to the nuclear strike, led the army to rely on NATO first echelon forces in case of a need of such assets. Just a guess.
Currently a new wheeled vehicle (again) is being fielded to support Leclerc units in this field. It's named SPRAT




chnoone
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 11:33 PM UTC

"One point though, the black convoy number panels should wear NL and not GE as your model depicts a Dutch Buffel."

Olivier,

thankx for causing another headache, but it seems U are right ! Assuming that all Dutch Vehicles stationed in Germany would have GE on their convoy panels is wrong, apparently. Checking my pics and DVD‘s on Dutch maneuvers it seems all ARV 2+3 as well as the PioneerPz. Leo 1 stick to the NL lettering. I will change it, being on the safe side, but I swear to god if someone pops a pic with GE I shall .... leave it the way it is then.
Since U initiated this issue Olivier, would U (or anyone else) by chance know why the difference in letting ?

I‘m glad to have awakened your appetite for this kit it really is good to build and comforting to have.
Also thankx for the bridge layer info I wasn‘t aware the French Army would go to a wheeled vehicle, good pics for my library!

"Currently a new wheeled vehicle (again) is being fielded to support Leclerc units in this field. It's named SPRAT ..."

Don‘t seem to be happy about this project?
I know the Germans are pissed with their knew "Brückenleger 2", saw it in action about 3 years ago demonstrated in Koblenz/Germany.
With a friend, German Major in the Panzergrenadiers, was frurious it took almost 12 min. to lay all 3 sections, poor guy was really upset. So now it‘s the Leguan on Leo 2 for the German Army, works good for the Belgians, US and Finland and Canada will be needing a few of them too in the near future.

Jason, I found this pic on the net of a Canadian Büffel in tan, looks like the deck has been rearranged a bit.
The additional attachments for mounting the slat armour are clearly visible on the side of the hull, the location looks like Munster/Germany?



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