Hi All

I want to build some US Army WW2 towed artillery under tow rather than deployed.

I have the dragon M2A1 105mm howitzer, which I understand was normally towed by a CCKW 352 (I will kitbash a Tamiya CCKW 353)

I would like to model a 57mm M1 Anti tank, posing it with a M2 half track, whats the best starting point for this gun ? Would a British 6 pounder work, or are the too many differences ?

How about the 37mm M3 anti tank gun, anyone make a kit ?

Thanks

Ian

A decent 57mm AT gun still awaits in plastic. A very expensive one from Resicast can be found.

The M3 37mm AT gun can be had in resin from CMK and Trakz (I recommend CMK), both about $30

Hey Ian,
Tamiya did a 6pdr but it's the English Mk. VI version of the gun with a 112.2" (50 calibres) gun bore and a muzzle-brake.
IIRC, the old Italeri/Max Peerless/Tomy kit is the Mk. II version of the gun with a 96.2" (43 calibre ) gun bore and may actually be a version used by the U.S. Army.
I read somewhere that some American troops used reverse Lend Lease guns borrowed from British depots.
The Italeri kit is available as part of the Bedford QL Portee w/6pdr PMMS Review

Zvezda also used to rebox the old Italeri kit U.S. Army Models Review

Here's the Resicast M1 57mm review

CMK M3 37mm Anti-Tank Gun

http://www.modelimex.com/ShowProduct.aspx?ProductId=409357223&CategoryID=239

Cheers

jjumbo

Thanks for the info

I have a British 6pdr that would be a good starting point for the 57mm, question is, does any one do a suitable turned replacement barrel, most of the replacements barrels I have come across are for turrets rather than towed pieces ?

Ian

You can start with the Italeri kit of the Six Pounder to model a US 57 mm gun. You will need to substitute the wheels from Italeri's US trailer kit (if you can find one), as the British wheels are too small for a US gun. Wheels from a 3/4 ton Dodge truck would also work. The American version had a longer gun tube, so you will need to extend it with styrene tube. Initially the US added geared elevation, but later reverted to the British free elevation system controlled by the gunner's shoulder.

There's a resin 3" gun conversion for the old Italeri 105. I'm sure it will work for the Dragon kit M2AS21 as well.

That would be interesting, who makes the conversion kit ?

Ian

There were at least 2 conversion kits from KMC, unfortunately long OOP.

http://70.86.163.186/gallery/3767

Warriors took over the molds but I haven't seen them available for some time.
TRAKZ may do a conversion set still.
Cheers

jjumbo

If you want to do a different tractor truck for the 105mm howitzer, the FABs in the Mediterranean Theater, including Tunisia and Sicily and Southern France used the earlier GMC 6X6 trucks with the rounded cabs. Italeri produced a kit but don't use the one with the opening for the 50 cal gun. The 6X6 Fuel Tanker Truck (6271) and the Canvas Covered Fire Rescue Truck (red colored) have the cab that you want. Sorry, but they may be hard to find.
Infantry anti-tank companies used the 1 1/2 ton 6X6 weapons carrier. Skybow/AFV Club and Peerless Max/Italeri both produced their own versions. Armored Division Anti-tank companies used the half tracks.
Fine Scale Modeler had an article by Bruce Culver on (1985 or so) updating the Italeri kit with some scale drawings. It provides good advice on the adding detail to the trails, wheels and gun shields. Unfortunately, it just advises just adding a section to lengthen the barrel. The Italeri/Zeveda 57mm anti-tank gun started as the Max Peerless 6 pounder gun on the Bedford Portee kit. One of the main problems with the kit is that the gun barrel and breech block are over scale. I think that it might be closer to 1/32. Taking the dimensions of the gun from the Hunnicut Sherman book, I couldn't reconcile the length of the kit barrel with photos. Adding enough length to the barrel to match the length seen in some US 57mm gun photos would make it too long. Comparing the breech block with Tamiya 6 pounder and Tamiya Cromwell 75mm gun, (a rebored 6 pounder) left me undecided on which were correct. The latter two are smaller and the 6 pounder barrel is much thinner. I finally got the Resicast 6 pounder kit and found that the barrel was much thinner and the breech block smaller and shorter than the Italeri kit. I think that it is closer to scale.
The Italeri shields are too thick and can do with being replaced by thinner plastic card. The gun trails are OK, but I had earlier thought that the bend in the trails might be moved forward just a bit. I came to this conclusion when trying to make the Airborne 6 pounder and tried to determine the location for the connectors to join the forward and rear halves of the trail. It ended up too close to the bend. If you really want to replace the barrel, but use the kit breech block, the Marquette Valentine Mk IX has nice barrels with the thicker rear portion that narrows down gently about a fifth of the way from the rear. It also has a muzzle brake that might be adapted. But it will be out of scale.
The Tamiya kit is very old and very basic. It looks more toy-like compared with later kits.
Some sources say that the Airborne 6 pounder was first used in Operation Market Garden, but it was used at Normandy.
It was used in Normandy, Southern France, Holland, and the Rhine Crossing by US Airborne Anti-tank companies. It was also used during ground operations such as the Battle of the Bulge and the drive across Germany. The way to identify the airborne 6 pounder in US service was the use of the British style muzzle brake. The gun shield also had a straight top, not wavy like the regular 6 pounder/57mm anti-tank gun. If you wish to modify the Italeri kit, the wheel base was shortened, the trails were cut in half and joined by connectors so that it could be folded in half and shortened when carried in a glider. I don't think that this feature was used operationally. The circular hand wheel to move the gun was replaced by a conical one. The gun shield was narrower, and the V shape front plate was narrower at the bottom and wider at the top. They would be towed by jeeps. The Americans did not modify their jeeps like the British Airborne troops did, but would have tied down boxes and bags on the gun trail and on the back of the jeep.
One interesting possibility would be to have paratroop artillery men moving an air dropped 75mm pack howitzer by hand, using rods installed in the trails and carriage, through a town in the Southern France. No jeeps for them!!
The US Army used a modernized version of the old 18 pounder gun/howitzer in the Philippines. They had rubber tires. You can use the Emhar kit as a starting point. You would need a 6X6 truck with the rounded cab or an earlier truck.
Best wishes,
Grant

I decided to build a M5 / M6 3in Anti-tank gun using the Warrior conversion kit.
I started with the Dragon M2A1 105 kit rather than the Italeri M101, building a 105mm Howitzer at the same time to get a feel for the kit.

Here is my WIP shots so far. The wheels are just pressed on, as I would like to fit combat tires instead of the ones provided by Dragon.

While looking at the parts in the kit, I am certain that they will do a M101 in the near future, as there are already parts for this gun in the kit (these came in useful for the M5 conversion.
A M5 / M6 is also likely, however this is not stopping me with the conversion.

M2A1



M5 or M6



Now i am a little confused with this, the conversion says M6, yet all the references I find for this gun say M5, whats the difference ?

Ian

Hey Ian,
Looks good !!!
The M5 3in. anti tank gun used the original flat gun shield from the M2 105mm howitzer.
The M6 was just an M5 modified with a sloped gun shield.
M5 3 inch anti-tank gun on Wikipedia

Cheers

jjumbo

How goes your M5 Ian? I'm also interested in doing an M5 3 inch ATG, and an M1 57 mm ATG. From what I read on these forums, however, it looks like my options are few.

I am making slow progress on the M5, however yesterday I did dry fit a set of Trakz M101 wheels which featured the more common combat tires. I have also made the brake lines from wire that run from wheel to wheel using some spare wire from a Fruilmodel Track kit. I am running into a couple problems fitting the gun shield, however this will be resolved once I fabricate the stays from Evergreen Rod.

The Warrior kit will work and I do see the light at the end of the tunnel with this project

I have also been making good progress on the tow, a M3 halftrack. A M39 would have been cool however they entered combat as the M5 were being replaced with M36, so hence the M3
No more photos yet, sorry

Ian