Constructive Feedback
For in-progress or completed build photos. Give and get contructive feedback!
For in-progress or completed build photos. Give and get contructive feedback!
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op barborossa

Mar-74

Joined: May 04, 2003
KitMaker: 679 posts
Armorama: 409 posts

Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 07:16 AM UTC
Ok so heres my entry for the campaign, its an sdkfz 251/10. its only my second attempt at armour and 1st with an add on tracks, the pak and first airbrush job. im in the process of weathering now and have enjoyed this project but would like to hear any comments you may have

WeWillHold

Joined: April 17, 2002
KitMaker: 2,314 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts

Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 08:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
like to hear any comments you may have
Martin, my comments include being pretty darn impressed with this model, especially with this being your second attempt at armor, and your first airbrush attempt.
The assembly and fit look clean and tight, and the paint/camo is controled nicely. The only thing is a nitpick, but it looks like the black/white cross on the rear might be a tad silvered---but again that is a picky picky nit.
Congrats on this very fine build, and the successful use of your new airbrush. Looking forward to seeing this weathered.
Good job!
Steve
TankCarl

Joined: May 10, 2002
KitMaker: 3,581 posts
Armorama: 2,782 posts

Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 10:52 AM UTC
Good use of camo,you may be a natural with an airbrush.
I agree about the rear cross,you can remove it with some cellopahne tape.did you have a good glossy surface underneath?
If you did try a water / decal softening agent mix to wet the decal.Then use more softener on the model.And press down on the decal with a damp paper towel,or a Q-tip (cotton bud for non Americans.
After you get it the way you want,let everything dry,and dullcote it .Then dirty it up,and add some stowage.
(++) (++) (++) (++) (++) (++) (++)
I agree about the rear cross,you can remove it with some cellopahne tape.did you have a good glossy surface underneath?
If you did try a water / decal softening agent mix to wet the decal.Then use more softener on the model.And press down on the decal with a damp paper towel,or a Q-tip (cotton bud for non Americans.
After you get it the way you want,let everything dry,and dullcote it .Then dirty it up,and add some stowage.
(++) (++) (++) (++) (++) (++) (++)

Jeepney

Joined: July 22, 2002
KitMaker: 1,538 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:27 PM UTC
I like the camo very much. Did you use masks? If you did not then I envy your natural skill.
The weathering should remove most of the gloss that is evident. Nice going!
The weathering should remove most of the gloss that is evident. Nice going!


HastyP

Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,117 posts
Armorama: 468 posts

Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:57 PM UTC
Beautiful job. What type of airbrush are you using? I want to purchase one and know nothing about them. Since you are a beginner with one, maybe what you are using would be good for me.
HastyP
HastyP
Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:29 PM UTC
Ola Martin
This is a fine example of the 251. From what I can see in the Pics (some are a little bit blurry) this is a very clean built congrats on that. I like the camo very much wich is indeed if not masked a great level of skill showed on your vehicle. The Balkan cross on the back does indeed silver a bit wich can be solved the way tankcarl mentioned.
I really can`t wait to see this beast weathered as it will give more live and character to the vehicle. I did the 250/10 wich is a bit smaller but a really nice vehicle to built
This is a fine example of the 251. From what I can see in the Pics (some are a little bit blurry) this is a very clean built congrats on that. I like the camo very much wich is indeed if not masked a great level of skill showed on your vehicle. The Balkan cross on the back does indeed silver a bit wich can be solved the way tankcarl mentioned.
I really can`t wait to see this beast weathered as it will give more live and character to the vehicle. I did the 250/10 wich is a bit smaller but a really nice vehicle to built


Mar-74

Joined: May 04, 2003
KitMaker: 679 posts
Armorama: 409 posts

Posted: Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 03:18 AM UTC
Thamks for the comments guys.
The airbrushing wasn't masked, but to be honest on applying the brown i wasnt happy so i decided to do it all again so after a complete respray what i did was keep adjusting the end of the needle to minimise the amount of paint. I didn't mask it just short sharp sprays.
Faust i used your 250/10 for reference during the build so thanks for that.
Im in the process of weathering now and am a little concerned on how it will turn out as its my first go at this, but then again that was the same for the airbrushing. The rear decal seems to have sorted itself out though with a heavy wash. i'll keep you posted, but thanks again guys.
The airbrushing wasn't masked, but to be honest on applying the brown i wasnt happy so i decided to do it all again so after a complete respray what i did was keep adjusting the end of the needle to minimise the amount of paint. I didn't mask it just short sharp sprays.
Faust i used your 250/10 for reference during the build so thanks for that.
Im in the process of weathering now and am a little concerned on how it will turn out as its my first go at this, but then again that was the same for the airbrushing. The rear decal seems to have sorted itself out though with a heavy wash. i'll keep you posted, but thanks again guys.


ukgeoff

Joined: May 03, 2002
KitMaker: 1,007 posts
Armorama: 703 posts

Posted: Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 04:32 AM UTC
Very nice model Martin, but..................... If this is for the Barbarossa group build, isn't the camo scheme a little late? As I recall the criteria for this build stipulated models from the start (June 22 1941) until the end of December 1941(unless I've missed some other ruling).
The three colour camo was not adopted until early 1943
The three colour camo was not adopted until early 1943

Mar-74

Joined: May 04, 2003
KitMaker: 679 posts
Armorama: 409 posts

Posted: Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 05:10 AM UTC
Ive looked into this geoff, and it appears that the camo schemes were taken on earlier, especially if these vehicles were working with tanks. I have attached the information i have found regarding this.
Although this does saythat the main coloour was panzer grey, it also states that armour in africa at this time was using the camouflage schemes and that some panzers on the eastern front had adopted the old camouflage markings.
So in my opinion this justifies my camouflage scheme although if there are any objections by the campaign leaders i will of course abide by them.
Quoted Text
PzKpfw I entered service in 1934 and first tanks were painted in Reichswehr camouflage scheme from 1922 that consisted of dark grey, dark green and dark brown matte colours. The scheme was applied to the entire vehicle in a form of cloud like patches or large irregular patches. Since the beginning, interiors of all enclosed armoured vehicles were painted in light cream or ivory colour (RAL 1001). In 1935, PzKpfw II entered service and in the same year, OKH ordered to use new colours including dark grey and dark brown/green. Dark grey was used to cover 75% of the vehicle while dark brown/green covered the rest. New colours were also applied in a form of cloud like patches or large irregular patches. Both colours were much darker than previously used ones and very well blended with surroundings when covered by some dust and dirt. In 1937, small number of PzKpfw III and PzKpfw IV tanks entered service but it was not until mid 1940 that they were in service in significant numbers. In late 1939, OKH decided to use only the dark (panzer) grey (RAL 7021) and by mid 1940, it was the only colour used, as it was factory applied. In the winter of 1941/42, all German vehicles on the Eastern Front were provided and applied with washable white winter camouflage paint that was used to cover all the visible areas. In the spring, the paint was to be washed off revealing original dark grey. At the same time, vehicles on the Eastern Front were often applied with camouflage patterns similar to those used in 1934-1939 period as well as mud and foliage. All vehicles send to North Africa arrived there painted in their original dark grey. In March of 1941, it ordered that vehicles in and destined for North Africa were to be painted in yellow brown/sand yellow (RAL 8000) as a base colour with grey green (RAL 7008) for camouflage patterns. Yellow brown was to be used to cover 75% of the vehicle and grey green the rest. In the field, vehicles were often applied with mud and captured British paints. In addition, starting in spring of 1942, vehicles used in the southern parts of Russia, were often applied with tropical camouflage, similar or identical to those used in North Africa.
Although this does saythat the main coloour was panzer grey, it also states that armour in africa at this time was using the camouflage schemes and that some panzers on the eastern front had adopted the old camouflage markings.
So in my opinion this justifies my camouflage scheme although if there are any objections by the campaign leaders i will of course abide by them.

stugiiif

Joined: December 13, 2002
KitMaker: 1,434 posts
Armorama: 868 posts

Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:15 AM UTC
I have to agree that your base coloyr should be grey!!!! The tank units in question also had their base colour grey as per the Text you provided. Because we are not working within the time periods justified by the documantation you provided the use of dunkelgelb is not working for this front as the order authorizing its use wasn't givin till early '42. But alas its a grip. Beautiful work and great paint. If you don't want to scrap the beautiful work done so far there is still plenty of time to build something else. I for one have a couple of back-ups for this campaign. STUG


Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts

Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 02:10 PM UTC
I think you did a good airbrush job and although it looks like a late war scheme to me (I am definitely not a German armor expert), I have no true objections to this kit participating as a Barbarossa campaign entry. Might be different if there were monetary awards or trophies delivered by scantily clad members of the fairer sex. 
Any objections to just chalking this up to a rookie armor builder error?

Any objections to just chalking this up to a rookie armor builder error?

PLMP110

Joined: September 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,318 posts
Armorama: 837 posts

Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 02:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Any objections to just chalking this up to a rookie armor builder error?
A completed kit is a completed kit. I thank you guys for having campaigns. They are what got me to building again.
Patrick

Halfyank

Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
Armorama: 1,245 posts

Posted: Monday, July 21, 2003 - 07:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
A completed kit is a completed kit. I thank you guys for having campaigns. They are what got me to building again.
I agree. The modeler thought they had good justification for the paint job they chose.

stugiiif

Joined: December 13, 2002
KitMaker: 1,434 posts
Armorama: 868 posts

Posted: Monday, July 21, 2003 - 08:36 AM UTC
No objections here, just trying to help!! I realy do like the three tone camo he did. Just like to see someone attempt it with a grey base coat. All in all its a great paint job. STUG


Torque

Joined: July 03, 2003
KitMaker: 83 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2003 - 01:20 PM UTC
Nice job.
I'm not an expert modeler or historian so all I can say is that it looks fine to me
I'm not an expert modeler or historian so all I can say is that it looks fine to me

keenan

Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
Armorama: 2,844 posts

Posted: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 01:02 PM UTC
No objections here, either. At least he has something done. Shaun "Last Minute" Keenan hasn't even started yet...
Did I miss the scantily clad trophy delivery person campaign?
Shaun
Did I miss the scantily clad trophy delivery person campaign?
Shaun

Posted: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 01:30 PM UTC
It inspires so much confidance when all these things go right the first time. Well done Martin. I havent been brave enough to try a camo scheme like this yet! gets my bravery award!! Looking forward to seeing weathered and finished!!

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