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Commonwealth Troops
AlanL
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:13 AM UTC
Hi Guys,

I've been trying to improve my figure painting for several years now. These are my most recent efforts for the Paint Your Troops Campaign.

If be interested in any hints/tips or general thoughts. I like figures a lot, painting them isn't always easy though:

Indian Infantry
These are the New Spearhead Figures with a couple of the Dragon Indian Heads, SMLE and some additional kit and new arms.



Wounded Grenadier Guardsman
Again the new Spearhead figure



Para 2 inch Mortat Team and a pal
These are the Resicast Figures



Officer and Battle Weary Para - the Officer was smoking a pipe but I altered him to be using a radio.
Again Resicast Figures



Britiah Tanker Kneeling
This one is an Ultracast Figure



BTW a lot of people pass this particular street corner!!!

Thanks

Al
calvin_ng
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 09:36 AM UTC
I like the figures alot, i have DML's british WWII SAS 2nd RGT but im a little weary of painting their smocks. Alan and advice? You seem to have got figure painting down really well. Okay one question if i may. Did you paint the eyes?And how did you particularly paint the flesh. Everytime i paint basic skintone from vallejo onto a figure, it appears too thin. Thanks mate, hope i dont overwhelm you with these questions!
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 10:08 AM UTC
Alan I really like the Indian troops and the Para's. I am not so keen on picture 3 as the uniform colours look very uniform if that makes sence, not that I could do better.
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 10:52 AM UTC
Hi Calvin,

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I paint the eyes, although probably not very well. On the skin tone, I've switched to using the Life Color Flesh set. I prime the faces and skin wiht Tamiya XF 52 Flat earth. The a couple of coats of Life Color Basic Skin Tone.

The Life Color paint is very thin and flows really easily leaving no brush marks. You only need a tiny amount on the tip of the brush.

Next I add texture/tone with several washes of a 50/50 mix of 1st light and 1st shadow, Just add a couple of drops of water and a tiny amout of each and mix them up. Several varing applications will give you a nice mix of tone, do the whole face and then just small areas.

For lips, cheeks I use another watery mix of Tamiya XF 7 and 1st light or base coat, just to get some colour.

Hope that makes sense. Keep the paint very thin and build up the tone gradually.

Hi Darren

Thanks, yes basic DB is not that exciting. I've included a side view that hopefully gives a better idea: Adding unit patches helps.



Thanks Guys. Still experimenting.

Al
jjumbo
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:18 AM UTC
Hey Al,
Great looking bunch of figures !!!
I like the DML Sikh heads on the overcoated bodies, would they be in North Africa or Sicily/Italy ?
BTW, have you got Dragon's #6390 British 8th Army Infantry El Alamein 1942 figures or their #6380 Commonwealth Infantry, Italy 1943 set ?
I've never seen them "in the flesh" over here in Canada.
I know there were some inaccuracies noted when they were first released and neither set is listed on the Dragon website.
Any insight on this ?
Cheers

jjumbo

p.s. How's the weather there ?
Looks like you folks in the U.K. are getting all the snow we need here for the Olympics !!!
calvin_ng
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:09 PM UTC
hI Alan, thanks thats some advice im gonna try out right now.
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:04 PM UTC
Alan that is a better picture of figure 2, it was the one below that figure"Para 2 inch Mortat Team and a pal" I refered too.
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 04:32 PM UTC
Hi John,

Yes, the Indian troops are done for N Africa but could be Sicily or early Italian Campaign.

On the DML sets Pat reviewed both, just hard to find them amongst all the panzers lol, lol.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3452

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3030

Both are fairly good sets. They got the putties wrong on the 8th Army set which is a bit annoyiubng and Part 10 in the Commonwealth Italy set, supposed to be Mess Tins in water bottle sleeves are out of scale (to me) and not something I've seen troops carry, nor do I think mess tins would fit into a water bottle sleeve but I could be wrong! Reading the review was this a Canadian thing?

Mike at Netmerchants has both sets and exports stuff, so less our VAT they might not work out too expensive.

http://www.netmerchants.co.uk/section.php/314/2/1_35_scale

I have both sets, but haven't built them yet. I like the Italian set, but would have prefered if they had given them SMLE rather than the No 4 rifle. Good possibilities with both though.

Hi Calvin,

Good luck

Hi Darren,

Sorry you first post confused me a bit thought you were refering to the Wounded Soldier. The pose of ther soldiers, lighting and angle don't show much of the uniform detail I'm afraid - always room for improvement.

Thanks guys.

Al
jjumbo
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 08:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

On the DML sets Pat reviewed both, just hard to find them amongst all the panzers lol, lol.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3452

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3030


Hey Al,
Yeah, I'd read both reviews by Pat but haven't seen any of the kits in my LHS and neither set is listed on Dragon's website.
I just was wondering if the problems with putties and mess tins had held up their release.


Quoted Text


Both are fairly good sets. They got the putties wrong on the 8th Army set which is a bit annoyiubng and Part 10 in the Commonwealth Italy set, supposed to be Mess Tins in water bottle sleeves are out of scale (to me) and not something I've seen troops carry, nor do I think mess tins would fit into a water bottle sleeve but I could be wrong! Reading the review was this a Canadian thing?
I have both sets, but haven't built them yet. I like the Italian set, but would have prefered if they had given them SMLE rather than the No 4 rifle. Good possibilities with both though.



As to the mess tins in water bottle sleeves, my book "Canuck, Batledress, Weapons and Equipment 1939-45", has a photo of a Canadian soldier carrying a mess tin in a water bottle webbing framework.
According to the text, the Canadians adopted the "Fighting Order" worn by the British 8th Army in Sicily and Italy.
My Dad said the same thing about fighting in Belgium, Holland and Germany.
He said that when he went out on patrol, it was SOP to carry the mess tin on their webbing belts and to leave their haversacks and their large or small packs back with their transport.
Thanks for the link, I'll have to look around and see if I can get those sets closer to home.
Cheers

jjumbo
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 10:15 PM UTC
Hi John,

Thanks for that info, someone asked me abouth that the otherday, so are you saying they had two water bottle holders, one for the water bottle on the right and a second sleeve type for the mess tins? That's how they are portrayed on the figures, but if so then they must have mighty thin mess tins as even used as separates they have a fair depth.

Thanks again.

Al,
jjumbo
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 10:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi John,

Thanks for that info, someone asked me abouth that the otherday, so are you saying they had two water bottle holders, one for the water bottle on the right and a second sleeve type for the mess tins? That's how they are portrayed on the figures, but if so then they must have mighty thin mess tins as even used as separates they have a fair depth.

Thanks again.

Al,


Hey Al,
Yup, bayonet frog and water bottle hanging on the left hip, entrenching tool carrier at the small of the back, mess tin on the right in a water bottle webbing framework.
From the picture in the book, it looks like a standard issue 2 piece mess tin.
I have a Canadian Army surplus mess tin that I used for camping and it appears to be the same size as the one in photo.
One larger mess tin, about 3.5 inches thick, with a folding wire handle with a smaller mess tin inside.
Hope that's clear.
Cheers

jjumbo

p.s. Just watched BBC World News, it looks like you folks are freezing your googlies off over there !!!
elph
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Posted: Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:33 PM UTC
Well from someone that is trying to paint better figures himself, I don't get caught up in all the wrongs or rights of uniforms. If I was just commenting on your painting, it is hard to tell because of your photography. Now, I have the same problem myself; it's not that my photos are bad, they're just not professional either from not having enough experience or not having a DSLR; what I can tell is that they look okay and like myself ... keep at it.
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 01:49 AM UTC
Hi Jon,

Clear as mud . An extra sleeve wasn't standard issue as far as I know so most probably a unit or individual thing. Don't recall having see any Brits using that set up. Plenty of individual choice and sometimes a variation like that can be a unit SOP.

Hi Bret,

Thanks for dropping in.

Al
jjumbo
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Posted: Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 03:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Jon,

Clear as mud . An extra sleeve wasn't standard issue as far as I know so most probably a unit or individual thing. Don't recall having see any Brits using that set up. Plenty of individual choice and sometimes a variation like that can be a unit SOP.

Hi Bret,

Thanks for dropping in.

Al


Hey Al,
I would guess that units in the field may have manufactured or modified the water bottle sleeves to carry a mess kit.
Cheers

jjumbo

update: Sorry Al, posted the wrong photos.
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 03:18 AM UTC
Hi John,

I do know what the standard mess tine are . I had enough scoff out of them over the years. Didn't think the thickness would squeeze into a sleeve but they might.

Al
jjumbo
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Posted: Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 03:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi John,

I do know what the standard mess tine are . I had enough scoff out of them over the years. Didn't think the thickness would squeeze into a sleeve but they might.

Al


Hey Al,
Sorry, I posted the wrong photos and now I can't find the website I got them from.
FYI... here's what it says on the Canadian Soldiers website:

"The most common configuration for gear worn by soldiers in the field was Fighting Order. Developed by British veterans of the 8th Army, the soldier's silhouette was reduced by dispensing with the haversack (normally worn in Battle Order on the back), and rolling a day's rations into the gas cape and fastening it to the back of the belt. Sometimes a mess tin would be worn in a second water bottle carrier, and the entrenching tool was often discarded in favour of a full size General Service Shovel or pickaxe."

Cheers

jjumbo
exer
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Posted: Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 04:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mess Tins in water bottle sleeves are out of scale (to me) and not something I've seen troops carry, nor do I think mess tins would fit into a water bottle sleeve but I could be wrong! Reading the review was this a Canadian thing?


It was Ron Volstad who gave me that info and he does good research. He also told me that he designed the set as Canadian soldiers and Dragon chose to put the Commonwealth label on them.

I also remember reading, in I think an Osprey book, that Canadians in NWE preferred puttees to the web anklets because they kept the mud out better.

Nice work on thje figures Al, I've always found it hard to paint Khaki uniforms convincingly. The subtleties of the Brown highlights and shadows are very tricky.
AlanL
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Posted: Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 04:30 AM UTC
Hi Pat and John,

Ok I'm convinced . almost!! I haven't yet come across 8th army chaps wearing that configuration. It doesn't mean that didn't exist, just I;'ve never seen it and whilst it may have been the practice of some individuals or even units I cannot see the Divisional Quartermaster issuing a 2nd water bottle carrier to every soldier in the 8th army! Although I got rid of mt WW2 water bottle and mess tins years ago the skelton carrying straps were a tight fit for the water bottle and mess tins are deeper that the standard water bottle. They might well fit into the skelton style carrier and they might fit into into the canvas carrier, I don't recal having tried.

Can anyone find a wartime picture that show this configeration? That would be good.

Pat,

Thanks, yip khaki isn't easy to get looking correct. Anyway I keep trying.

Cheers

Al
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