Does anyone know what kit or kit combos/conversions would be best to make this? All I can find is the Academy M51 model and that has the wrong gun. Any ideas?
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Best kit or combos for '67 M1 Sherman (76mm)?
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:05 AM UTC
A customer wants me to build him an IDF M1 Sherman w/76mm high velocity gun from the Six Day War, June '67, time period. It looks like the below pics.
Does anyone know what kit or kit combos/conversions would be best to make this? All I can find is the Academy M51 model and that has the wrong gun. Any ideas?
Does anyone know what kit or kit combos/conversions would be best to make this? All I can find is the Academy M51 model and that has the wrong gun. Any ideas?
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:17 AM UTC
I used the Italeri M4A1 and the DML M50, with the engine deck from the MB Models kit and some reworking...
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:34 AM UTC
After looking more closely, mine is a different version, but you'll still need those kits. I'd have to check my stash, but I did three of the DML M51's and I think they came with the complete M50 turret and gun as extra parts.
TonyDz
Joined: December 13, 2009
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 10:22 AM UTC
The IDF M1 Sherman is basicly just a M4A1E8. The only additions are French smoke launchers on the turret and the IDF cover over the horn. Ther's no way out of having to kit bash it. I'd go with the DML M4A1 "Operation Cobra" kit #6083. Get the AFV Club E8 suspension kit and a set of DML DS T80 track (you can get just the track these days). Then look to see if someone will part with the smoke launchers. You'll have to do the mantlet cover. Either scratch buid it or see if you can get one out of the DML M4A2 76MM Russian kit.
"18 Bravo", huh? Thought you guys were supposed to be big on attention to detail? He has no need for the M50 turret, what he needs as far as the turret goes is the T-23 type with 76MM. The only thing of use out of those kits are the smoke launchers.
Quoted Text
After looking more closely, mine is a different version, but you'll still need those kits. I'd have to check my stash, but I did three of the DML M51's and I think they came with the complete M50 turret and gun as extra parts
"18 Bravo", huh? Thought you guys were supposed to be big on attention to detail? He has no need for the M50 turret, what he needs as far as the turret goes is the T-23 type with 76MM. The only thing of use out of those kits are the smoke launchers.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 10:41 AM UTC
If you'll read my subsequent post, I said it was a different version, didn't I? I was offering to check my stash because I may have leftover parts (read smoke dischargers) from my L33.
Just what we need-another tool in our box to replace the one we lost.
Just what we need-another tool in our box to replace the one we lost.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 12:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
A customer wants me to build him an IDF M1 Sherman w/76mm high velocity gun from the Six Day War, June '67, time period. It looks like the below pics.
Does anyone know what kit or kit combos/conversions would be best to make this? All I can find is the Academy M51 model and that has the wrong gun. Any ideas?
The tanks in the photos are not the French rebuilds used by Israel, but fairly stock late M4A1E8 tanks.
Kitbash the Dragon Operation Cobra M4A1 kit with the Dragon Thunderbolt VII M4A3E8 kit. You'll also need the AFV Club double link steel track, unless you grab a set from Dragon's M4A3E8 (105) kit. For the basic hull, you'll need the M4A1 parts, and you'll need the late upper turret shell from the Thunderbolt VII kit (it has an early one as well). You can use the 76 mm gun with muzzle brake from the latter kit as well, unless you go the aftermarket route. Use the Easy Eight suspension from the Thunderbolt VII kit and add a set of the late tracks. Good part is, you'll have parts left to do a standard M4A3 76mm version, so you can buy two kits and get two models out it.
TonyDz
Joined: December 13, 2009
KitMaker: 420 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 12:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If you'll read my subsequent post, I said it was a different version, didn't I? I was offering to check my stash because I may have leftover parts (read smoke dischargers) from my L33.
Just what we need-another tool in our box to replace the one we lost.
I did read it, I even quoted it. Didn't see anything about smoke launchers or L33s. Didn't really see any help as to his question. Excuse me. Didn't mean to step on any supposed snake eater toes. Thought SF was the "quiet professionals"? Tools are useful and useful I am.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 12:29 PM UTC
Thanks for the help. Looks like I will need to get the two kits then. Rob, if you have the smoke launchers, I'll trade you something for them. Let me know.
calvin_ng
Joined: June 23, 2008
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 12:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just what we need-another tool in our box to replace the one we lost.
LOL Rob, i know what your trying to say now, but Tony really, trolling and mocking others about their proffesion? May I ask what you do? Rob is on active duty and is one of the many brave men and women protecting this country. Your pretty new to the site, and already you are already making a bad image of yourself. I know this isnt my business, but again show some respect.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 12:57 PM UTC
Another question. Could I use the Dragon M4A3E8 'Easy Eight' Korean War #9009 as opposed to the "Thunderbolt IV" kit? It would give me the T80 track in the box.
Or...
Could I use the DML3539 M51l Sherman as a base with the early 76mm turret from the Thunderbolt IV kit?
Or...
Could I use the DML3539 M51l Sherman as a base with the early 76mm turret from the Thunderbolt IV kit?
calvin_ng
Joined: June 23, 2008
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 01:31 PM UTC
Gino im pretty sure your second option could work, im not an expert but i do try to help, if not hurt . Maybe a few modifications to the hull and turret and it will work. I have t80 tracks indy link that could come in handy if you need them. If you have any t66 tracks ill gladly trade for that.
TonyDz
Joined: December 13, 2009
KitMaker: 420 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 01:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I know this isnt my business
I agree with you 100% on that point. I know you're young so you may not be aware that respect is earned, not given. I don't really care what you think he may or may not be, that's up to you. I sure don't have to run down my service record to you or anyone to answer a queston. I can't help it if he can't take a little levity. So why dont' we keep it on subject. Here's a site you might enjoy:
http://lifestyle.msn.com/messageboards/board.aspx?board=00000065-012b-0000-0000-000000000000
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 01:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gino im pretty sure your second option could work, im not an expert but i do try to help, if not hurt . Maybe a few modifications to the hull and turret and it will work.
Thanks Calvin.
Any other opinions or comments?
Please keep it on subject. No need for pissing contests.
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 02:19 AM UTC
Gino,
I'm not much of an IDF Sherman expert so I'll leave the construction tips for someone else.
What I can offer is a photo of (what I think is) an IDF 76mm Sherman dozer tank. Not much of help but if it might be of interest just drop me a PM.
BTW: The offer is open for anyone.
Cheers,
/E
I'm not much of an IDF Sherman expert so I'll leave the construction tips for someone else.
What I can offer is a photo of (what I think is) an IDF 76mm Sherman dozer tank. Not much of help but if it might be of interest just drop me a PM.
BTW: The offer is open for anyone.
Cheers,
/E
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 02:46 AM UTC
Never mind. Found the source:
http://idf-armor.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default
If I'm not mistaken these might be of relevance:
/E
http://idf-armor.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default
If I'm not mistaken these might be of relevance:
/E
calvin_ng
Joined: June 23, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 06:16 AM UTC
Looking back at your photos Gino, i think the israelis added a few more antennas to the turret.
TonyDz
Joined: December 13, 2009
KitMaker: 420 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 07:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Another question. Could I use the Dragon M4A3E8 'Easy Eight' Korean War #9009 as opposed to the "Thunderbolt IV" kit? It would give me the T80 track in the box.
Or...
Could I use the DML3539 M51l Sherman as a base with the early 76mm turret from the Thunderbolt IV kit?
The original option I gave you was for a well detailed build. Since it's a commision build, guess it wouldn't really matter. Yes you can use #9009. Throw an Italeri M4A1 hull on and you're 98% there. The only use the M51 kit has for you is the smoke launchers, Toolman said he could help you with that.. The M1 and the M51 have very different engine decks. As I stated above the IDF M1 Shereman is just a M4A1E8 with a couple small mods.
Quoted Text
If I'm not mistaken these might be of relevance.
Erik, the first picture is a very good example of an IDF M1 Sherman. The second picture is of no help because it has had the enginedeck and additional stowage mods of the M50/51 Shermans.
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 12:21 AM UTC
[quote]
Maybe this web persona is new but it sure looks like a departed older one
Al
Quoted Text
J Your pretty new to the site, and already you are already making a bad image of yourself. I know this isnt my business, but again show some respect.
Maybe this web persona is new but it sure looks like a departed older one
Al
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 02:26 AM UTC
Thanks guys. Thats whaat I thought too. I'll stick w/the Op Cobra and Thunderbolt IV combo. I'll post some pics as it gets going.
Hmmm, the persona and some specific words do sound very, very familiar.
Hmmm, the persona and some specific words do sound very, very familiar.
badger66
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 251 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 05:18 AM UTC
Gino,
PM sent
PM sent
Ellevenbravo
Joined: April 08, 2007
KitMaker: 269 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 06:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
"18 Bravo", huh? Thought you guys were supposed to be big on attention to detail? .
Lighten up Francis.
What's with the personal attacks? 18B did nothing to warrant you flying off the handle like that.
I don't know Mr. Skipper from a hole in the wall but I know he has a track record for a few years now of posting some very unique pictures and information on this site that are extremely helpful and informative.
What have you done for this site, troll?
calvin_ng
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 08:18 AM UTC
Exactly what i mean.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 01:02 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Another question. Could I use the Dragon M4A3E8 'Easy Eight' Korean War #9009 as opposed to the "Thunderbolt IV" kit? It would give me the T80 track in the box.
Or...
Could I use the DML3539 M51l Sherman as a base with the early 76mm turret from the Thunderbolt IV kit?
The Korean War kit #9009 is a 1990's release which combines Dragon and Italeri components (hence the 9000 series stock number, indicative of their mixed ancestry), and the tracks are old school single links with the end connectors "frozen" to one link, so they don't articulate quite right. The Easy Eight suspension bogies are a chore to assemble. The turret shell on the old M4A3E8 kit is not as accurate in shape, either.
You could use the Dragon M51 kit, but even the Premium Edition kit uses the old Dragon M4A1 late hull tooled for their first Israeli Sherman kit, rather then the new one mastered for the Operation Cobra kit (which caused much online grumbling on the M51's re-release). The latter version has a better shape. If you use the Thunderbolt VII turret, use the later turret top with the small loader's hatch, rather than the early one with the twin (early and late style) cupolas.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 02:58 PM UTC
Thanks Gerald. Looks like it is the M4A1, Thunderbolt IV, and track set then.
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 09:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Gerald. Looks like it is the M4A1, Thunderbolt IV, and track set then.
Gino it's the Thunderbolt VII kit you need not IV
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