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VN tanker question -M48A3 stowage attachment
AVALONWARBOOKS
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Arizona, United States
Joined: December 22, 2007
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Posted: Monday, February 08, 2010 - 06:24 AM UTC
VN tanker question -M48A3 stowage attachment ?

Hi,
Modeling a M48A3 with extra 40 mm ammo boxes attached to turret grab rail...... Wondering how these were attached? Welded? bolted? Strapped with paracord? strapped with webbing? Any help greatly appreciated
Keith
MikeMummey
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Posted: Monday, February 08, 2010 - 06:52 AM UTC
Howdy Keith, lots of different ways to mount the boxes. As simple as a couple of "candy cane " shaped pieces of rebar welded to the back of the can with gravity keeping it in place or as techno as "U" bolts around the rail through holes punched in the can and fastened on the inside. Straps would be a last resort for me as it would be a hassle to get to the contents quickly. I have seen all manner of techniques used. Outta here, Mike sends . . .
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, February 08, 2010 - 12:09 PM UTC
Hi guys,
Please excuse my ignorance here. I'm building an M48A3 aswell & looking for all sorts of stowage to add to the model. I've seen pictures of boxes attached to the stowage rack/bin at theback of the turret that look almost square but my reference said they were 20mm ammo boxes. Is this reference wrong? Apparently, they were used for the personal gear for the crew. Is this correct & did each crew member have one?
As always, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Joe.
Thatguy
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Posted: Monday, February 08, 2010 - 12:30 PM UTC
You're not wrong. They were used for both 20mm and 40mm ammunition. Ammo cans in the US Army have their own nomenclature, though people rarely know it (not that I expect most people to, its pretty obtuse). The nomenclature doesn't change regardless of what its filled with and the basic can designs are often used for a wide array of purposes. For instance, the can in question was used for 20mm and 40mm ammunition, but also for packing either 1000 or 2000 round belts (I can't remember which) of 7.62x51mm for use in helicopter armament subsystems. There are two types of can that have been used to package 40mm as well, making things even more confusing. A very good discussion of all this can be found here.
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, February 08, 2010 - 11:52 PM UTC
Joe,
Thats great! Thanks very much indeed for pointing me in the right direction. Much appreciated. I'll have a good read of this later & get back to you if I have any more questions if that is okay with you.
Joe.
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 06:17 AM UTC
actually the box that was in vogue up north was the bomb fuse cases used by the Air Force and Marine Aviation. It was roughly a 20" cube painted a light grey color. You saw those those used all over the place. Alot of folks also used the wooden 105mm ammo crates as well. Cannot remember ever seeing a 40mm amo box, but then again there were not any in my AO
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 06:19 AM UTC
that's probably a bomb fuse box. The lid on them has a lip that goes over the bottom half about 2", and seals up very tight.
gary
AVALONWARBOOKS
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Posted: Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 06:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

actually the box that was in vogue up north was the bomb fuse cases used by the Air Force and Marine Aviation. It was roughly a 20" cube painted a light grey color. You saw those those used all over the place. Alot of folks also used the wooden 105mm ammo crates as well. Cannot remember ever seeing a 40mm amo box, but then again there were not any in my AO
gary


YES Gary the gray cube Fuse box is one type and the other is a rectangular "Navy" 40mm ammo box........i'm wondering about the attachment as seen on the Concord Armor in Vietnam upper rear angle M48A3 photo.....

BTW..How were ammo boxes attached in your AO?

Thanks in adavance, Keith
Tankrider
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Posted: Friday, February 12, 2010 - 02:53 AM UTC
Keith,
IMHO asking how the 40mm cans were attached is almost pointless on this board as there are few 1-69 Armor tankers here... The is a 69th Armor page on the net that might yield some better answers. I build a M48A3 Mod B that sounds similar to what you are looking at. I used two sets of 40mm ammunition containers from Azimut, which provides the rectangular as well as the square containers. I used CA to attach them to the bustle rack as if they were welded to the model's bustle rack. I should have added the chain or strap around the 6 or so cans that were mounted but didn't at the time...

Based on my experiences on M60A3s and M1A1s, just bolting an ammo can, predominately 20mm or 30mm cans to the bustle rack worked for a short time before the metal tore under the load of the ammo can and its contents. What worked the best was a piece of angle iron welded to the bustle rack or where ever, serving as a shelf and then the can rested on on the angle iron and was attached (bolted or welded) to the bustle rack for additional strength.

FWIW

John
trickymissfit
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Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 06:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

actually the box that was in vogue up north was the bomb fuse cases used by the Air Force and Marine Aviation. It was roughly a 20" cube painted a light grey color. You saw those those used all over the place. Alot of folks also used the wooden 105mm ammo crates as well. Cannot remember ever seeing a 40mm amo box, but then again there were not any in my AO
gary


YES Gary the gray cube Fuse box is one type and the other is a rectangular "Navy" 40mm ammo box........i'm wondering about the attachment as seen on the Concord Armor in Vietnam upper rear angle M48A3 photo.....

BTW..How were ammo boxes attached in your AO?

Thanks in adavance, Keith


I kind of imagine that the reason we never saw 40mm ammo boxes was because they were so few and far between in I-Corps.
How were they attached? Now you gotta remember that I've slept alot since then! But most (on tracks) were literally just setting inside home built racks behind the turrets, or were tack welded to whatever they could attach them to. Most of the time they were loose if at all possible. The 105mm crates were often just bolted down thru the bottom. Really never gave it a lot of thought till you asked.
Tracks breaking jungle would most often have everything mounted to the rear of the turret, as the jungle will remove everything that's not welded in place.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 07:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Keith,
IMHO asking how the 40mm cans were attached is almost pointless on this board as there are few 1-69 Armo tankers here... The is a 69th Armor page on the net that might yield some better answers. I build a M48A3 Mod B that sounds similar to what you are looking at. I used two sets of 40mm ammunition containers from Azimut, which provides the rectangular as well as the square containers. I used CA to attach them to the bustle rack as ifd they were welded to the model's bustle rack. I should have added the chain or strap around the 6 or so cans that were mounted but didn't atthe time...

Based on my experiences on M60A3s and M1A1s, just bolting an ammo can, predominately 20mm or 30mm cans to the bustle rack worked for a short time befor the metal tore under the load of the can. What worked the best was a piece of angle iron welded to the bustle rack or where ever, serving as a shelf and then the can restion on the angle iron and then bolted or welded for additional strength.

FWIW

John


1st/69th was posted south of me and another part was way north of me. 90% of all tracked units were CAV units in one form or another in the 150 miles that I covered north to south. So all my reflections are what I saw on CAV units. (17th CAV, and 1st /1st Armored CAV). On occassion we did come upon a Marine unit every now and then (over near the coast). They all operated east of me, as my base camp was kinda like a line drawn in the sand. No tracks past that.
gary
DioRandy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 01:03 PM UTC
Hey, guys
Unfortunately, I can't recall what site I was viewing, but an M48 vet stated that they often jammed cases of C-rations into their turret rings as a sort of applique armor. The C-rations would detonate the RPGs before they slammed into the turret. He then added that there was no room to stow them inside the vehicle, anyway.
Randy
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