I've just checked out your post with the grafitti. That is brilliant. I cant wait to get hold of these!
You know, I feel kind of proud! LOL
Good luck mate!
Joe.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Vietnam Grafitti?
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 11:44 PM UTC
Oh yes, Mark!
I've just checked out your post with the grafitti. That is brilliant. I cant wait to get hold of these!
You know, I feel kind of proud! LOL
Good luck mate!
Joe.
I've just checked out your post with the grafitti. That is brilliant. I cant wait to get hold of these!
You know, I feel kind of proud! LOL
Good luck mate!
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 06:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice that you had first hand information Gary, but you and I both know that no two guys carried the same equipment in the same way. You cant tell me that an RTO never carried ammo or other gear cause you didn't have eyes on every RTO in Viet NAM. That ANPRC77 was pretty heavy but some of those boys were pretty big. gimme a break and get real. I remember s**t loads of news footage and just about anything goes. A lot of guys did blouse their boots to keep the critters out and if ammo was needed anyone with room on their rucks carried it. I had buddies in the bees that were Marines back then and that is what they said. And by the way I do personally appreciate your tour over there. I was a shipboard guy then but would have gone and like you ,done my best to do the mission and above all to stay alive ,had they sent me.
first of the RTO would never be up there handing a belt of 7.62 to the M60 gunner! NEVER! His load was probably heavier than the average guy was carrying anyway. That radio and a couple extra batteries wasn't exactly light weight. Often spare batteries were spread out with other guys. When you take the weight of the radio, and his M16 plus the normal load out; he was humping twenty five pounds more than most guys did. Add to this the fact that the antenna alone made him the first target. The RTO's position in a fire fight or most any other thing was tobe within hand reach of the platoon leader, and no where else. When we hit a hill top for a recon the RTO was always the third guy to off load the chopper. Never fourth and never second. That way you knew where he was. First guy off was a guy carrying the M60.
The weight of the radios were bad, and the size of the guy had nothing todo with carried it. It was just who was there at the right moment. I carried the hog for three and a half months, and weighed a grand total of 147lb. The gun with an extra barrel (one of the other guys carried a barrel as well), and three belts was close to forty pounds. Add to that a 45 and three or four mags and your upto forty-eight pounds. Buy the time your up and moving you got close to a hundred pounds on your back. Nobody ever gave it a second thought, as they just didn't know anybetter.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 06:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
AAH Vietnam! my favourite modeling subject!
And speaking of graffiti, I'm about to release (in a few days) a new little decal set that contains exactly that!
best regards
Mark
be sure to offer it in yellow markings as well. Yellow was the most common paint color in country next to O.D.
gary
retiredbee2
Joined: May 04, 2008
KitMaker: 757 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 09:56 PM UTC
Hi Gary....I carried a Pric 77 too and I know that it is heavy.I did not mean to suggest that the RTO was up front in a firefight acting like John Wayne. What I was saying is that RTO s carried extra ammo too just as some of the other guys carried extra batteries for him. If it were for a 60 , it would be in a bandoleer box rather than loose around the neck. We did it in training and from what some of the guys said , that they did it in Nam too. They said that everybody carried ammo .RTO is a prime target for a sniper. He being close to a squad leader or platoon leader made them targets too. You are extremely knowledgeale on Nam and the things that your unit did but your unit was not the only unit there and not everyone did things exactly the same. Wish I could have been there first hand and not have to rely on things that I heard, kinda kills my credability but What the heck! ........Al........I did go to a field radio school as Seabee electricians are responsale for setting up com for the unit be it all that com wire from the COC , ACOC , to the front positions to the 40 ft mast anenas in the ant farms. The heck of it was that when the radios and field phones worked , they worked great , when they didn't they didn't and always at the worst possible time for some reason. ....anyway, am also looking forward to some of those grafitti decals. Some of the slogans on the gear can be hand painted though.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 06:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Gary....I carried a Pric 77 too and I know that it is heavy.I did not mean to suggest that the RTO was up front in a firefight acting like John Wayne. What I was saying is that RTO s carried extra ammo too just as some of the other guys carried extra batteries for him. If it were for a 60 , it would be in a bandoleer box rather than loose around the neck. We did it in training and from what some of the guys said , that they did it in Nam too. They said that everybody carried ammo .RTO is a prime target for a sniper. He being close to a squad leader or platoon leader made them targets too. You are extremely knowledgeale on Nam and the things that your unit did but your unit was not the only unit there and not everyone did things exactly the same. Wish I could have been there first hand and not have to rely on things that I heard, kinda kills my credability but What the heck! ........Al........I did go to a field radio school as Seabee electricians are responsale for setting up com for the unit be it all that com wire from the COC , ACOC , to the front positions to the 40 ft mast anenas in the ant farms. The heck of it was that when the radios and field phones worked , they worked great , when they didn't they didn't and always at the worst possible time for some reason. ....anyway, am also looking forward to some of those grafitti decals. Some of the slogans on the gear can be hand painted though.
if the radio man wanted to carry a couple belts, then so be it. But here's the deal; he wasn't going to be hand them off to guys needing them. He was right besides the platoon leader all the time. Perhaps he might with a squad out on a listening post, and that's a little plausable. Reason I say the RTO didn't do that stuff was because it was extremely important to keep him in one peace. If the NVA put a round thru the radio you were in deep trouble as you couldn't communicate. When this happened it often took two or more hours to get him a new radio, and that's like living a half dozen life times. It got so bad in the summer of 68 that often there was a spare radio kept in the C/C chopper. This is why arty unites and mortar teams almost always used land lines instead of radios unless they were very deep in the bush.
It was most common for everyone in a squad to share the load for sure. I've seen more than one officer loaded up just like a private, but still alot of that was due to intell. If you knew you were dropping in on a mound of fresh dirt that left you alone you carried everything but the kitchen sink. If you were head back to the rear you often just carried an M79 and a dozen or so can rounds (I usually took a sawed off shotgun). But once you got six or eight kilicks west of highway one you were loaded for bear because you never knew when the next resupply was comming in.
Most people do not realize that just because your setting up shop on hill 880 something you just don't go in there all at once. Somebody does a recon from the air, and then that's followed by an advance party. These guys don't travel light. The squad leader will be constant radio contact as soon as his feet touch the ground while the rest of the guys setup a quasi perimeter. The RTO will be in the center along with whoever is leading the party. The first thing he (RTO) does after stringing his arial is to find a bomb crater, and stay there.
If there's contact we all know exactly where he is. This is also where the five or six cans of ammo is stashed (last guy drags it off the chopper). When there is contact with us by the neighbors we will start a steady barage of arty from another unit that has the place registered. If contact is heavy the C/O must figure out a way to get in a couple squads of infantry, or get them out of there. I never was kicked off a hill as an advance party, but came very close more than once. While this is going on the fire push is extremely busy, and everybody else moves to another channel. The leader is constantly adjusting and ranging 155mm rounds just to keep their heads in the dirt (sometimes he will be doing three different targets at the sametime). But the RTO is never close to the point. If he goes we all go
gary
retiredbee2
Joined: May 04, 2008
KitMaker: 757 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 03:03 PM UTC
Thank you Gary for the first hand information on just what things were like for you over there.Some of that , I already knew from my training and for the fact that I also was an instructor for my unit. A little more gung ho than the rest. The major difference was my experience was fun and games but yours included a whole lot of people who wanted to very much see you dead. Am glad that you made it through.........Al
Steamjohn
Joined: November 22, 2009
KitMaker: 43 posts
Armorama: 42 posts
Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 03:17 PM UTC
Joe,
Just looked at the 2 snapshots I have of my Dad when he was in Nam. In both he is shirtless, but has on a flak jacket. He also has a love-bead necklace on. he has a boonie hat on in one and is carrying his M-16. There's a couple of pins on his hat, but I can't be sure what they are, one of them looks like a dove. There's a photo of him in his truck, on the seat beside him is his pack, in a scabbard to his right is his rifle, muzzle down. he doesn't talk much of his time there other than he did NOT want to be there. But, a big thanks too him and all the other veterans!
Just looked at the 2 snapshots I have of my Dad when he was in Nam. In both he is shirtless, but has on a flak jacket. He also has a love-bead necklace on. he has a boonie hat on in one and is carrying his M-16. There's a couple of pins on his hat, but I can't be sure what they are, one of them looks like a dove. There's a photo of him in his truck, on the seat beside him is his pack, in a scabbard to his right is his rifle, muzzle down. he doesn't talk much of his time there other than he did NOT want to be there. But, a big thanks too him and all the other veterans!
jakes357
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 254 posts
Armorama: 132 posts
Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 07:14 PM UTC
hi,
The acronim FTA came from early- mid 60's recruiting slogan Fun-Travel-Adventure which the troops quickly morphed into F--k The Army. Stateside in '64 it was generally on the inside of the cap/helmet. In '66-67 in the highlands (Plieku 3rd BDE 25th ID) it depended on what NCOs/officers allowed in the units I was with. I'm sure as time went on the attrition of career NCOs, and the promotion of younger NCOs who were less concerned with BS allowed more graffiti on helmets etc.
While I was in-country as long as your weapon, mags & ammo were clean and you made a reasonable attempt to look/act soldierly they pretty much left you alone.Just my experience.
Jake
The acronim FTA came from early- mid 60's recruiting slogan Fun-Travel-Adventure which the troops quickly morphed into F--k The Army. Stateside in '64 it was generally on the inside of the cap/helmet. In '66-67 in the highlands (Plieku 3rd BDE 25th ID) it depended on what NCOs/officers allowed in the units I was with. I'm sure as time went on the attrition of career NCOs, and the promotion of younger NCOs who were less concerned with BS allowed more graffiti on helmets etc.
While I was in-country as long as your weapon, mags & ammo were clean and you made a reasonable attempt to look/act soldierly they pretty much left you alone.Just my experience.
Jake
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 08:36 PM UTC
Thanks for your input Jake. These kind of responses are great because they can tell us how, why & where the grafitti was worn.
So, was grafitti more predominant the more the war progressed & the more peoples attitude turned against it?
What did you use to mark your helmets & flak jackets? Was it a marker pen or some such device?
Looking forward to hear what people have to say!
Joe.
So, was grafitti more predominant the more the war progressed & the more peoples attitude turned against it?
What did you use to mark your helmets & flak jackets? Was it a marker pen or some such device?
Looking forward to hear what people have to say!
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thank you Gary for the first hand information on just what things were like for you over there.Some of that , I already knew from my training and for the fact that I also was an instructor for my unit. A little more gung ho than the rest. The major difference was my experience was fun and games but yours included a whole lot of people who wanted to very much see you dead. Am glad that you made it through.........Al
my base camp was also a formation point for LRRPs and SOG teams, and what we carried for radios was nothing compaired to some of the stuff they humped. I'd pretty much guess their basic load out was well over a hundred pounds per man! I remember watching a guy going thru the biggest ruck sack I've ever seen checking out these little sensors that looked like leaves on a bush. He must have had seventy five in there. No fat boys in the bush!
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 06:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
hi,
The acronim FTA came from early- mid 60's recruiting slogan Fun-Travel-Adventure which the troops quickly morphed into F--k The Army. Stateside in '64 it was generally on the inside of the cap/helmet. In '66-67 in the highlands (Plieku 3rd BDE 25th ID) it depended on what NCOs/officers allowed in the units I was with. I'm sure as time went on the attrition of career NCOs, and the promotion of younger NCOs who were less concerned with BS allowed more graffiti on helmets etc.
While I was in-country as long as your weapon, mags & ammo were clean and you made a reasonable attempt to look/act soldierly they pretty much left you alone.Just my experience.
Jake
Up north they never bothered you much about what was written on your hemelt cover. At one time I had the Hawiian good luck sign pined to the front of my helmet cover. I used to get saluted by guys moving out from the rear, till my first sargent saw it! A size 14 boot in the rear got my attention (Top and I were very close as in father & son). If all of will remember in the movie MASH as well as the series; you used to see signs with cities named on an arrow (like a road sign). The first I saw of that was on a couple LZ's, and I liked that idea. So I put one up on a post with the arrow pointing due east. 24 hours later it must have had ten arrows nailed to the post! They'd see where you were from and stick their heads in for a "hello".
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 07:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for your input Jake. These kind of responses are great because they can tell us how, why & where the grafitti was worn.
So, was grafitti more predominant the more the war progressed & the more peoples attitude turned against it?
What did you use to mark your helmets & flak jackets? Was it a marker pen or some such device?
Looking forward to hear what people have to say!
Joe.
the one piece of writing that left the strongest impression on me was when I went on an OP with a bunch from the 101st. There was an M60 gunner that had "vengence is mine; thus sayest the Lord." I've never forgot the way the stock looked on that gun after all the years have gone by.
gary
Gorizont
Joined: November 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,462 posts
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 08:01 AM UTC
Thank you all for the images and text.
I also searched for information about this and nearly looking symbols, and found some interesting things.
Symbols are an interesting topic.
greetings...
Soeren
I also searched for information about this and nearly looking symbols, and found some interesting things.
Symbols are an interesting topic.
greetings...
Soeren
jakes357
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 254 posts
Armorama: 132 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 07:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for your input Jake. These kind of responses are great because they can tell us how, why & where the grafitti was worn.
So, was grafitti more predominant the more the war progressed & the more peoples attitude turned against it?
What did you use to mark your helmets & flak jackets? Was it a marker pen or some such device?
Looking forward to hear what people have to say!
Joe.
hey,
My tour was early on '66-67, can't speak to later. We were issued an indelable marker in basic to mark underwear (white at the time),boots etc. When I first arrived we were in the process of going to subduded patches. Because of shortages the marker were used to blacken the goldish colors on stripes, the US Army patch and the white nametape. As GI's do they were used for many things unintended.
In the 25th there were many Hawaiian's (they deployed from Schofield Barracks in Hawaii)so a lot of guys had stuff related to the islands.(mostly unpronounceable to mainlanders) Some of the artwork was drawn real well, and some was quite crude. In many case the graffiti meant something personal to the guy under it.(see below)
My personal helmet had my nickname "Crazy Horse" on the left and an outline of the state of Massachusetts (probably spelled wrong.sorry) with my home town of Lynn written inside the state outline on the right.
Equipment with crude and foul language etc were discouraged by the 1st shirt (sgt) by volunteering you for digging new latrines or "burning s--t when returning to base camp. In that I'm naturally a lazy individual I avoided that stuff as much as possible. Being 6'2" in a group that was normally under 5'5" meant I stuck out enough without looking for trouble. Having a Boston accent didn't help either.
Guess I got a little wordy,sorry. It brought back a lot of memories time had buried. It occured to me that I was in-country for a while before getting issued jungle fatigues and boots (I came from Germany to Vietnam). Hope this helps.
Jake
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 07:07 AM UTC
Hi fellas,
Just wanted to let you know that I got the Vietnam Graffiti set from Mec Models yesterday.
If anybody is thinking of getting it then I can definitely recommend that you do.
This sheet has loads of applications for the Vietnam war modeller-the possibilities are endless!
Superb workmanship & a job well done Mark!
Thanks buddy!
Joe.
Just wanted to let you know that I got the Vietnam Graffiti set from Mec Models yesterday.
If anybody is thinking of getting it then I can definitely recommend that you do.
This sheet has loads of applications for the Vietnam war modeller-the possibilities are endless!
Superb workmanship & a job well done Mark!
Thanks buddy!
Joe.
minimodelman1221
Joined: March 05, 2010
KitMaker: 66 posts
Armorama: 62 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 12:25 PM UTC
Hey Joe. I read a book a while ago called 10000 Days of Thunder. It is about Vietnam war events and it had a couple of pictures of Marines with a little bit of graffiti on their helmet. Its not a lot, but maybe it can help you on your project.
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 04, 2010 - 07:28 PM UTC
Hiya,
Thanks for your little addition.
I'll look out for that book! I think I've seen it on Amazon.
I've actually found quite a few good quotes recently that would look great on a helmet or flak jacket on a 1/35th dio. Enough for a second sheet from Mec Models, perhaps?!
Good luck to you!
Joe.
Thanks for your little addition.
I'll look out for that book! I think I've seen it on Amazon.
I've actually found quite a few good quotes recently that would look great on a helmet or flak jacket on a 1/35th dio. Enough for a second sheet from Mec Models, perhaps?!
Good luck to you!
Joe.
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 - 09:29 PM UTC
I have heard from a reliable source that there will be a second sheet of graffiti coming from Mec Models very soon.
I cant wait to see it as the first one is superb!
Mark, any ideas?
Joe.
I cant wait to see it as the first one is superb!
Mark, any ideas?
Joe.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Friday, April 30, 2010 - 10:51 PM UTC
Just came across this one :
More interesting Vietnam pics here :
http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2010/04/30/captured-a-look-back-at-the-vietnam-war-on-the-35th-anniversary-of-the-fall-of-saigon-2/
Frenchy
More interesting Vietnam pics here :
http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2010/04/30/captured-a-look-back-at-the-vietnam-war-on-the-35th-anniversary-of-the-fall-of-saigon-2/
Frenchy
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 01:23 AM UTC
Hi Frenchy,
Now that is a GREAT picture, my friend!
I really like that sarcastic tone in the writing & the big f**k you to the powers that be!
Thanks again Frenchy for your great addition to this thread.
Joe.
Now that is a GREAT picture, my friend!
I really like that sarcastic tone in the writing & the big f**k you to the powers that be!
Thanks again Frenchy for your great addition to this thread.
Joe.
Mark
Joined: February 07, 2003
KitMaker: 554 posts
Armorama: 461 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 07:08 PM UTC
Well,
this is the second set:
its's available now. Hope you all like it.
best regards,
Mark
this is the second set:
its's available now. Hope you all like it.
best regards,
Mark
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 08:04 PM UTC
Hurrah!!!
Oh that is excellent, Mark! I think your attention to detail is unsurpassed & that this little sheet will add something unique to the Vietnam modellers armoury.
Absolutely superb, Mark. Thankyou.
Joe.
Oh that is excellent, Mark! I think your attention to detail is unsurpassed & that this little sheet will add something unique to the Vietnam modellers armoury.
Absolutely superb, Mark. Thankyou.
Joe.
AgentG
Joined: December 21, 2008
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 1,095 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 04:54 AM UTC
Oh the memories.....................
Big brother was at Khe Sahn, I cannot remember what he had written on his flak jacket, but it was similar.
I saved my helmet cover for years, it finally rotted away. Due to the time frame we had very little graffitti when I was there (the bitter end, '75). The powers that be decreed it was not desirable therefore no slogans, symbols, calenders etc.
We went with the first pattern jungle cammies, IIRC they were about four shades of green with slant pockets. Jungle boots with nylon inserts, and some of the first Alice packs to hit the FMF.
Flew off the Franklin evacuating folks. Went out with three aircrew and four marines. Returned with upwards 45 people in a CH53. Made three trips to Tan Sohn Nhu, the last was just before the base was rocketed. Last trip was into Saigon proper, landed on a parkway about a mile? from the embassy.
G
Just went and looked, last trip was April 28, 1975.
Big brother was at Khe Sahn, I cannot remember what he had written on his flak jacket, but it was similar.
I saved my helmet cover for years, it finally rotted away. Due to the time frame we had very little graffitti when I was there (the bitter end, '75). The powers that be decreed it was not desirable therefore no slogans, symbols, calenders etc.
We went with the first pattern jungle cammies, IIRC they were about four shades of green with slant pockets. Jungle boots with nylon inserts, and some of the first Alice packs to hit the FMF.
Flew off the Franklin evacuating folks. Went out with three aircrew and four marines. Returned with upwards 45 people in a CH53. Made three trips to Tan Sohn Nhu, the last was just before the base was rocketed. Last trip was into Saigon proper, landed on a parkway about a mile? from the embassy.
G
Just went and looked, last trip was April 28, 1975.
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 04:25 PM UTC
Hi G,
Thanks very much indeed for sharing your personal experiences of a very historical moment with us all. Those last few days before the fall of Saigon must have been very hectic for anybody who was there. You must have seen some sights, I reckon!
Joe.
PS: I wish a manufacturer would make a model of the CH-53 in 1/35th scale!
Thanks very much indeed for sharing your personal experiences of a very historical moment with us all. Those last few days before the fall of Saigon must have been very hectic for anybody who was there. You must have seen some sights, I reckon!
Joe.
PS: I wish a manufacturer would make a model of the CH-53 in 1/35th scale!
joegrafton
Joined: October 04, 2009
KitMaker: 1,209 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 19, 2010 - 02:44 AM UTC
Hi fellas,
I just thought I'd let you know that the second graffiti set arrived while I was away & I have to say that it is pretty amazing. Both sets are well worth the investment as the attention to detail is superb. Having these slogans on figures & vehicles will really add to the realism of any model from the Vietnam era you wish to make.
A very special thanks to Mark at Mec Models for a job well done!
Keep up the good work, Mark.
Joe.
I just thought I'd let you know that the second graffiti set arrived while I was away & I have to say that it is pretty amazing. Both sets are well worth the investment as the attention to detail is superb. Having these slogans on figures & vehicles will really add to the realism of any model from the Vietnam era you wish to make.
A very special thanks to Mark at Mec Models for a job well done!
Keep up the good work, Mark.
Joe.
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