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1/35 Verlinden HUMVEE detial is NOT to scale!
Boneman131
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 12, 2009
KitMaker: 30 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 06:18 AM UTC
Hello all,

I've been lurking for a while and I need some help and imput from this community.

I am undertaking a 1/35 HUMVEE project (TAMIYA) - a "Generation Kill" custom Humvee to very closely resemble 'Hitman 2-1' - Brad Colberts Humvee. (yes I've seen the other Generation Kill postings here).

My question/concern is that I purchased the 1/35 Verlinden Hummer Weapons Carrier Detail Set (#1976) and several of the photoetched parts are NOT to scale and I was wondering if anyone else who's purchased this kit has also encountered/noticed this??

This is the kit in question: http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/verlinden/v1976.htm





The photoetch '40mm ammo rack' that mounts to the side of the Mk19 to hold the 40mm ammo cans is way to large! I compare it to the molded part that comes with the Tamiya kit and it is noticably larger!

Secondly, when I went to install the nice photoetch hood grill, that piece was also incorrectly sized, this time too small and did not even completely fit into the 'hole' in the hood. It was about 1/2cm too short!!!!

So I'm sitting here wondering how the heck this is possible and how Verlinden could even release/sell this 1/35 detail kit when several of the major parts arn't even in the proper scale!!

I can't be the only one who's noticed/encounterd this?!?! Anyone else out there have the same issue with this kit or any infoormation about this? Is this a "known issue" with this kit?

Any help would be great guys. Thank you.
afv_rob
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 06:24 AM UTC
This set is designed for the Academy Humvee (at least it was originally, Verlinden probably just slapped a new label on it) thats what you are probably having problems. Personally I think you'd be better off using either eduard or lionroars all photoetch set for detailing the Tamiya kit, both sets are much better!
Boneman131
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 06:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This set is designed for the Academy Humvee (at least it was originally, Verlinden probably just slapped a new label on it) thats what you are probably having problems. Personally I think you'd be better off using either eduard or lionroars all photoetch set for detailing the Tamiya kit, both sets are much better!


...and the light goes on. Thank you! I didn't realize this Verliden kit was 'brand' specific! It would certanly explain some of the sizing issues...however I would have figured that 1/35 would be 1/35 regardless of who made the kit.....

Thanks for the suggestions. I am now sourcing the Eduard photo etch kit. Thank you.
Boneman131
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 06:51 AM UTC
Thanks again Rob! Just ordered the Eduards kit from www.modelhobbies.co.uk!
TonyDz
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 08:10 AM UTC


Verlenden pulled the same stunt with some of his T55 sets. They were made years ago for the ESCI, kit then when the Tamiya kit came out he rereleased them saying they were for the Tamiya kit. You are also assuming the kit is correct and not the PE. Some PE is made off measurements from the real thing, then they don't fit right on the kit becauase whatever company didn't get the kit right. Eduard does all their PE to the kit.
Boneman131
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 08:17 AM UTC
Good to know. Thank you Tony!

I can also say that I was not very impressed with Verlinden's included resin pieces in this kit. I've found most of the Tamiya pieces to be much better molded and having sharper detail than the verlinden resin.

Oh well, live and learn I guess. Afterall, what's another $20 when I'm into this project close to $300 already...
afv_rob
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 09:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Verlenden pulled the same stunt with some of his T55 sets. They were made years ago for the ESCI, kit then when the Tamiya kit came out he rereleased them saying they were for the Tamiya kit. You are also assuming the kit is correct and not the PE. Some PE is made off measurements from the real thing, then they don't fit right on the kit becauase whatever company didn't get the kit right. Eduard does all their PE to the kit.


Eduard have indeed done some dodgy etch sets which as you say are designed for the kit and arent accurate. However their Humvee set is to the best of my knowledge accurate. Of course without having the 40mm ammo can holders in front of me I cant say how accurate, but based on studying the tech manual they did a reasonable job. Thats not to say they included everything because they certainly didnt. The crew heater is missing, you need to add all of the roof interior details among other things.

Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 09:29 AM UTC
I does fit the Tamiya HMMWV, just not the Tamiya HMMWV you think. The original HMMWV w/M242 Bushmaster is the Italeri HMMWV kit and it would fit that one. Just not the current new-tool M1025 or M1046 HMMWVs.
Boneman131
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 09:38 AM UTC
Ok, but how can two different 1/35 kits be sooo different? I mean the 40mm ammo cage is not even close to scale (using reference photos and comparining it to the included Tamiya piece).

Shouldn't a 1/35 humvee be a 1/35 humvee regarldess of who makes it?!?! (I'm really that naive arn't I....)
TonyDz
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 12:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Shouldn't a 1/35 humvee be a 1/35 humvee regarldess of who makes it?!?! (I'm really that naive arn't I....)


Yes to both. I guess you didn't read the review you linked to. Here's a quote from it:


Quoted Text

This is not the first time Verlinden has re-released an old set designed for another kit and claimed it will fit a new Tamiya kit, the T-55 sets come to mind and quite frankly this is unfortunate as people will buy these sets and find out the hard way that many of the major components simply don’t fit.

As Eduard and others can release separate detail sets designed to fit different kits properly why can’t Verlinden instead of simply re-releasing mislabelled older stuff for a quick buck.

Phil_H
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: November 10, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:04 PM UTC
I once heard a hobby shop proprietor remark (unkindly) that "Verlinden is French for "doesn't fit properly"" ....
sopmod6
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:07 PM UTC
The world ain't perfect guy, so don't assume 1/35 is the same from one company to the next.
Those guys don't actually go out there and measure everything down to the nil.
TonyDz
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The world ain't perfect guy, so don't assume 1/35 is the same from one company to the next.
Those guys don't actually go out there and measure everything down to the nil.


No the lazy ones don't, the good ones do.
sopmod6
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The world ain't perfect guy, so don't assume 1/35 is the same from one company to the next.
Those guys don't actually go out there and measure everything down to the nil.


No the lazy ones don't, the good ones do.


That would be Trumpeter...just to name one that doesn't.
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:37 PM UTC
Maybe they don't do it personally, but I know the job has been getting done in recent and several forthcoming kits.
sopmod6
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 01:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Maybe they don't do it personally, but I know the job has been getting done in recent and several forthcoming kits.


And I'll keep buying it too! Like Brent said, if it looks like a duck...
RKinsella
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Joined: September 29, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 02:05 PM UTC

Hi Dave,
I hadnt got time to read through all the posts here but quickly the Verlinden kit you mentioned is quite old now and originally designed for the Tamiya HMMWV Bushmaster kit as a conversion into hard cab variant.
The Bushmaster HMMWV was the first and only variant of the Hummer produced by Tamiya for many years (The later Italeri Humvees with hard tops are based on this mold too)

Acadamy & Ertl kits were available at this time but appeared quite out-dated in comparison to the Tamiya Humvee Bushmaster when it was released. Early Ertl kits had dodgy and incorrect huds (bonnets), ask anyone who purchased the soft top ambulance or early tow versions.

The later series of Humvees by Tamiya, the M1025 and M1046 are completely different and original casts. Tamiya also corrected the inaccurate dimensions of the original kit, the Bushmaster HMMWV so the verlinden conversion kit you mention became almost defunct

Best of luck with your build, please post pics

..BTW I'm the other guy who did the Generation Kill Humvee

Boneman131
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 12, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 04:28 PM UTC
Hey Roy! Yes I recognized your avatar and name from viewing your fantastic Generation Kill Humvee! It help give me some reference and inspiration for taking on this project. I hadn't done a model in 14 years and had been dying to start up a new project. Well I'm knee deep in it now and hoping to have it ready for a September show.

I will deffinately post up some pics and info when it gets closer to completion. Been stock piling up my reference material, including watching and re-watch Generation Kill while taking notes on the humvee.

Thanks again to everyone for their informative and helpfull posts!! Fantastic and very knowledgible community here. The depth of information here is truly amazing!

Thanks guys!
wander1107
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: November 18, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 04:44 PM UTC
Roy,

Do you have a link to your Generation Kill Humvee? I'd love to see it.

Dave,

Please keep us in the loop; I'd love to see how your model in coming along.
RKinsella
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Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 05:42 AM UTC
Hey Dave, thanks for the kind words my friend!!

..If your looking to model Sgt. Colberts original Humvee stay away from the TV series and get your paws on the book instead, although the pictures are small and B&W, if you take the time and make some notes you'll be able to cover all the detail of the proper vehicle! If you can get "one bullet away" too by Nate Fick it has some pics as far as I can remember. Just remeber the biggest difference between the TVand the origianl vehciles are the camo patterns

below is the TV series Humvee;


Here is one of the original vehciles;


and another Humvee open top from the same unit, note the color pattern;


If however your modelling the TV series (which I loved BTW) then this would be a cool idea too as the vehicle is quite accurate and is also a really cool subject to model!

I'm really looking forward to your pics Dave, just take your time and enjoy the build, you'll find your feet pretty soon again!

Bill thanks too mate, here's a link below, hope it works, if not just google my name and generation kill in the search bar on the top right of this page (click the armorama icon), it should be the first hit

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/141191&page=1&ord=1



Boneman131
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 06:04 AM UTC
Wow, thanks Roy!

I'm currently reading the book while re-watching the HBO series. I am going to model off the HBO series humvee, for several reasons:

- lots of reference material
- more 'recognizable' as people who've seen the series will be able to easily identify with it

The camo patterns from the 'real' humvee to the one in the HBO show are quite different arn't they? I'm almost to the point of getting ready to figure out a way to paint the camo and will be trying several different methods. It took me a while to get a good tan color mixed up for the base tan and now the next mixing challange will be the darker camo 'spots' as are almost a brown/grey color.

I have the undercarge done, complete with D-Toys resin wheels/tires and I was just starting on the main chasis, although I'm haulting work on the humvee itself for now until I get the Eduard PE kit.

So now I'm going to get started on the 'bits & bobs' like jerry cans, ammo boxes and doing some custom work on all the ruck sacks that hang off the side of the vehicle (doing some putty work to get the bed rolls nicely formed on top of the rucks as well as doing some lead foil straping).

I bought everal kits of 1/35 "Humvee crews" so I can chop and putty them into various positions. Somehting I've not really done much of before. Question, how (or where) did you make (get) those elvis glasses for your Person figure? What a fantastic touch!!

I'm trying to be as ture to the HBO humvee as possible, down to hanging a 1/35 AT4 in the back between Wright and Trombly.

Perhaps I'll start a new topic and post up some progress pics. Thanks again for all your advice and assistance thus far! you guys know how to make a new guy feel welcome!
18Bravo
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Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 06:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm almost to the point of getting ready to figure out a way to paint the camo and will be trying several different methods. It took me a while to get a good tan color mixed up for the base tan and now the next mixing challange will be the darker camo 'spots' as are almost a brown/grey color.


You may want to try what we did in real life. Get cammo netting (that new Barracuda netting looks like it would fit the bill perfectly) and spread it out over the vehicle. Then simply spray the brown through it. More than likely what was used was Krylon Camo Brown. It's readily available to US forces, and what we used on our equipment.
Kenaicop
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Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 07:02 AM UTC
No kidding ! Hardly anything those people make is to scale or accurate. I stopped buying their PE and most of thier resin sets years ago.
Boneman131
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Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 06:12 PM UTC
Started a new thread with some pictures of my 1/35 "Hitman 2-1" build.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=forums/154148&page=1

Boneman131
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 07:19 AM UTC
Here is an example of the Verlinden PE not fitting the Tamiya kit:





...but by the sounds of it most of you already knew this would happen with the Verlinden kit!
 _GOTOTOP