Guys,

We're crossing posts! I missed three while composing my previous one...

I agree they must be internal louvres (similar to the ones on the front, but in a box behind the hole). The "blankness" in many of the shots makes me wonder if it's all just shadow, or if there is a mesh screen in the opening that blurs thre detail...

The louvres on the Magirus are different because they are external, and thus easily seen in pics. (Hence the confusion over whether all three versions had them.)

But I'm still a little worried about the one with railway wheels. Is it truly a B-N vehicle? I'd seen it labelled as a D-B one based presumably on the stowage boxes. And has it been altered? Regardless of its origins it'd make an interesting model...

Tom

Hi Tom

As regards the railway conversation I'd say looking at the rear mudguard angle its a B-N. If you look at the picture of the three with lines etc drawn on I posted earlier you'll see one of the features of the B-N is it has unequal angles to the sections extending downwards, the front angle much shallower. If you put the Magirus mudguard on a B-N body I'm thinking the mudguard would go over and foul the side entrance hatch for the crew. Taking into account perspective when viewing the mudguards I think, along with the wheel hub detail, my money's on it being a B-N.

Certainly interesting as you say.

Alan

Gents;

Leaping into this thread fair late: Couple of things here... I own one of those Italeri kits with the resin interior parts- won it pretty cheap on evilbay- elsewise it is costly. It's a pretty good kit, and the resin bits will give a good basis for some additional internal stuff which can be seen thru several hatches. The kit would benefit, I think, from some PE or other external detailing, but molding looks good as Italeri goes.

There is another 1/35th plastic kit out there- the HiPM or HistoricModels kit- which I also have one of. (I'll let it go.) That kit lacks most of the positionable hatches, etc., but the general molding and detail is OK.

Neither kit features those side vents up front behind the "wings" which are in discussion here.

I am pretty sure that most vehicles produced by all mfgrs either had them from the git-go, or got them during refurbishment. The vents do show up on various pics (both those posted this thread and in many others in several pubs). As to the flap configuration- I could be convinced that there were several arrangements- no one standard to look for! Clearly some had horizontal flaps and some vertical. Some flaps look like they opened out, much as the front radiator flaps did (do- on the PE and kits) on most vehicles. In other cases, it appears that the flaps were reversed and opened in- as if they existed within a sort of internal box frame. These latter may well have been covered on the outside by some sort of heavy screen or mesh? Those which opened to the outside may have had that putative mesh behind them.

One function of these would, I think, have been to increase air-circ around the engine- serving as the rear vents for the engine compartment.

An attractive alternative utility for these would have been as ventilation ports for the crew compartment- as the engine would donate heat to the front (fire-wall) of the driver's station- and many trucks and other vehicles had vent flaps for bringing air into the driver's station down near his feet.

Maybe someone out there KNOWS about which function they served?

I am wholly unsure but I suspect that one or another PE kit might have some bits for to create these? Otherwise, it's cut and make some flaps!

That pic showing the RR mod... I don't think that this was exactly standard or common- The Germans did adapt some captured vehicles to serve as rail patrols, and could well have retro-fitted 232 vehs- but these don't show up frequently in the photo records, so I think they were very rare. (And the chance to get photographed in RR service would, I think, have been higher than in most "in-action" situations).

It would make a grand model, indeed!

Those under-body rollers... Seen this in several pics- never associated them with a particular mfgr but now wonder... Anyone have any details on this set-up or know which vehs they were found on?

And some vehs had a rack of smoke-grenades mounted on the front... anyone have any info or know of any clear pics of this detail? (The HiPM kit I think actually offers a rack- as does some PE kit? I don't think the Italeri kit has this feature or option). So far as I know, this was on some vehs, and the trigger lines appear to have led up into the driver's vision port- pull-cords for fuses? Electrical wires?

Cheers!

Bob,

Hi - I'd heard about that HiPM kit but never seen one. Any chance you could post a few pics here? I'll be adding a few detail shots to the review in a day or two.

Having been thoroughly disabused of my notions on those vents, I'll risk a second drubbing by venturing that I'm sure I read somewhere that those rollers were added later in an attempt to address the poor cross-country performance. So I guess they could go on any variant.

Oh, and in case you haven't picked up on it, "wings" are a common term in UK car-speak for fenders...

What we need now is a genuine full-size 6 Rad to crawl over and examine!

Tom

Tom / all:

OK - I'll see what I can do. No promises but I'll try to post a box and a sprues-shot for that HiPM / Historic kit this PM.

If you search evilbay, there is often one to be seen- that's where I got mine. Again, the kit is OK- not as replete to details as is the Italeri offering...

Those rollers were certes all about providing some help in easing that long body over "hi-centres" in cross-country travel. Seen them in various pics but have no idea as to whether they were "factory" or "AM"! What I am looking for viz these is any shots that might show enough structure detail to make a plausible build detail. I think they add some interesting character...

And... yup! I'm up on "wings"!

As you probably guess, I am working up to building one. It'll be that Italeri-w/ resin kit and a metal barrel and some PE bits and (no doubt) some scratching around (those smoke-bombs up front are pretty cool). And I am going for the brown-on-grey Poland campaign, I think...

Cheers!

Okay Tom, you ready for this

If you look at my post with the three pictures and notes on you'll see a red line pointing to the underside of the Magirus version. As I don't know the originator of the image I can't ask them, but I believe its the roller they are pointing out, and this being another way of telling which variant. To add to that I have this image which I found in my internet wanderings, which shows line drawings of the three types and guess what

So my money's going on it being a feature of the Magirus produced one. Which if I remember correctly is the one you said was produced the most. So lets see if we can find any sporting rollers that are not Magirus types.

Let the debate continue.

All the best.

Alan

Ha Ha! Alan, I too saw that, but after the vents issue I figured the details in these drawings are at the very least a little suspect. In fairness I've only seen the rollers in relation to the Magirus types, but I'm not sure they left the facttory that way. Oh, to have better records...

Regards,

Tom

PS: You aren't by any chance coming up to our Essex MAFVA show in Romford on 14 August? If so, seek me out! (Details at www.mafvaessex.co.uk)

Hi Tom

Yes, the drawings are a little off. Same mudguard arrangement for all three and the front section on the Daimler is very suspect, especially in relation to the front mudguard, distance etc.

I can't think much further than a week ahead these days, let alone what I'll be doing in August. I'd love to come but if things carry on as they are I doubt it. My industry, which means my income, has been bad effected by the recession and what with the Government priming us up for a very hard Budget I think it's only going to get worse.

I checked of the other kit that's available, the HPiM one. Looks pretty grim to my eyes. I was hoping for a different variant but it looks a B-N version as well, but less detailed

I'm not sure how far I'll go with mine. I've looked a the Voyager PE set which looks a good price for what you get. I've already got a replacement 2cm barrel, just need the MG to sort. I've got a loose idea in my head for a diorama based in Poland or France with these guys close by discussing the landscape ahead and which way to proceed.
Padded berets versions I think

Loads more to do before I open the box and start on this one though.


all the best

Alan

Just when you think you have it sussed.

A possible B-N with vertical louvers on the right. The vehicle behind is a B-N but is the front one ?



But I'm starting to think the left was either mesh or blanked off.

Mercedes



Bussing Nag



The first photo seems to have the same vent as this Mercedes

As for the underside rolers ( no idea which version but I assume a Magrius )



And the rail version is definitely a B-N





And just because I thought it was cool, a Polish replica

I have the HistoricModels one in my stash I got from a Hobby shop that was downsizing. Got it for a song but have not started it yet.

Dean,

Some really fine pictures! (But if anything they suggest there's lots of possible variation in those vents - gulp!)

And that replica - I want one! It'd be murder on fuel economy, but it would sure liven up the daily commute!

By the way, I sent some more detail shots of the kit to the review to be added, so hopefully folks csan get a better idea before they buy.

Tom

Check out the video of it on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrtokdg1rIo

It's a re-enactment in Poland of a battle filmed to look period. It's quite a good watch. There's also an Sd.Kfz. 222