Tom Cromwell looks inside the box at Italeri’s early German Sd.Kfz. 232 6-wheeler scout car.



Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!

Hi Tom

Thanks for the review on this kit. I'm not sure of the vintage but I think it may be one of Italeri's older offerings. They do a 1/72 scale version as well for all the Braille scale fans.

You mention the resin kit version which if you buy at recommended retail price is ridiculously expensive, but if you hunt around and can wait comes up on ebay from time to time. It's were I got mine

I like this "hot rod" looking armoured car of the military world and as you say it's a must for fans of the early WW2 period.

One thing that's been missed out entirely in the kit is a grilled vent/hatch on the engine compartment. I first became aware of it about three years ago when I came back to the hobby. I was following Rick Lawler's build of this for his great little diorama over on planetarmor.

It includes quite a few shots of the actual vehicle, so worth bookmarking for future reference. Shame he doesn't post much on here apart from his business connections with Mig Productions and Masterpiece Models.
Rick's Diorama

Anyway, thanks for the review. I know that many dislike Italeri kits claiming them to be old style in construction and detail, never progressing from a the 70's but I disagree. I think with care, some good old fashioned modelling skills as they say, they come up pretty good, and many of the subjects they produce are not represented by anybody else in plastic, or if they are only recently.

Thanks again for the review. Makes me want to get mine out and make a start on it.

All the best.

Alan

Thanks for taking the time and effort in reviewing this kit. I have a 'feeling' that with the recent releases by Hobby Boss and Tri Star of the sdkfz 222 with engine and interior that this one will be next. I hope Dragon is paying attention too since they've done a great job with the eight wheelers.

Tom is there any chance of you sending close up pictures of some of the parts to be included in the review.

Guys,

Thanks for the comments!

The missing cooling fans are only an issue with the Magirus-built vehicles, and were not present on the Bussig-NAG or Daimler-Benz versions as far as I can tell, but as they all shared the same coachwork it would have been nice if Italeri had offered the option! Still, if Dragon or Tristar etc do a new version we can only hope for the choice. What I'm not sure of is whether there should be other differences in the chassis & drivetrain to mark the three makers... And if a manufacturer is reading, we want that roller too.

Darren, I'd be happy to post more detailed pics of individual parts if you can point out which parts you are interested in. (I did only the default sprue shots for the review - it's hard to know where to stop...) It doesn't need to be too specific - just an idea to guide me.

Regards,

Tom

Can you highlight some parts that are well moulded and some points that were a concern for you, just a general oversight of the main componants please.

Thanks for the review Tom. Gotta love those early war armored cars.


Have to agree with you Alan. When it comes to soft skins and trucks especially. Italeri always have superior details under the chasis compared to anything else that was available at the time, and even to today. They are also easy to add updates to as well.

Great review - cool subject..I always wanted to get this but the boss says my stash is too big. There's also the super detail version they made which included resin parts and a photo book/instruction book.

Hi Tom

From your comment I see you've looked into this vehicle in some detail, could you recommend any books or sites for further information. I was going on information regarding the grill from the postings over on planetarmor I linked to and assumed this information was correct but your post has thrown me somewhat.

I did a Google image search and came up with this image. Something I've found out about the vehicle is the front end grill is one of the distinguishing marks between the three manufactures, and if I'm correct the version Italeri has modelled going by most of the features including the front slats is the Bussing NAG vehicle, as you say.

I believe going by the front grill these are Bussing NAG vehicles, but if my eyes are not mistaken it looks like there is the kit missing vent on all of these just past the front fender/mudguard. A dark area on each, not a shadow I think. So I'm a bit confused now. Hope you can clarify it for me.



I'm not doubting your word, in fact I'd be more than happy to know I've not got to cut this hatch into the side of the kit

Cheers

Alan

If you mean to the left of the mudguards then yup those look like the vents to me.



But I'd love confirmation on that one either way myself as I'm just about to start on one of these.

Alan & Dean,

It's all getting complicated! According to what I can find, of the 123 vehicles built (both 231 & 232) Magirus built the lion's share of 75, with Daimler-Benz building 36 and Bussig-NAG producing a lowly 12. So, the odds of that line-up being all B-N vehicles is pretty slim. I reckon they are all Magirus models, hence the grills. (They should have them on both sides...) The period photos don't help much given that they are mostly "front 3/4" views and rarely do we see both sides of one vehicle. I have no idea whether they got any modifications in use, either, so for all I know they could have all been retrofitted with grills...

Trouble is the Italeri model seems mainly to be a B-N version, without the grills, despite it being the rarest of the three. As these grills and the mostly invisible underframe are the telling features, it is up to you to decide if you add them to make the more common Magirus version or leave it as-is for the other two. There are other minor differences (eg the front wings) but I doubt anyone at Italeri knew about this when they cut the moulds!

Some useful websites are:

(Useful stats and company details:)
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/armored-cars/sdkfz231-6-rad.asp

http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/heer/armoured-cars/sd.kfz.232-6-rad-fu-schwerer-panzerspaehwagen.htm

(Wikipedia:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Panzersp%C3%A4hwagen

(Brief but useful:)
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/schwere-panzersphwagen-sdkfz231-6-rad.htm

(Drawings of all three types from a Russian publication:)
http://airlandseaweapons.devhub.com/blog/61216-schwerer-panzerspahwagen-sdkfz-231-6-rad-1/


There is a new book from Tankograd on the subject (#4010) but I haven't got one yet. There was an old paperback I had years ago (Schiffer? Squadron/Signal? can't remember) but can't put hand to it just now. I had lots more info gleaned from all manner of books way back when I kitbashed one from the then-new Tamiya 8 Rad for a local contest. (Showing my age...)

I'm by no means an expert on these beasts...

Regards,

Tom

Hi Tom

Thanks for your reply and at length.

During my searching the 'net I'd come up with several images as you do. Some came from non English forums so I was unable to grasp what was being discussed or the authority by which those gave their knowledge.

Two images I did save gave some detail on the visible differences between the three makers and I've shown them here for discussion purposes. As you can see the pictures would seem to suggest, as you have said before, that the Italeri kit is based on a Bussing NAG, and the details I'm showing clearly show that the front grill is of that type along with the front mudguard shape, wheel centres etc.

These do match to the previous photograph I've shown. With respect I don't see why this photograph could not be a parade of Bussing NAG vehicles, there small quantity of production compared to the others isn't really an indication of the possibility of them not being seen on mass in any particular location in my opinion.

Based on the images I've seen so far, the ones I've shown here, indicates to me that the kit is supposed to be the Bussing NAG produced vehicle and to my mind the parade picture shows vehicles also matching that description I'm currently of the opinion the grills should be added.

As I said before and I'm happy to be proved wrong on this, because I don't really want to have to make this modification.

best regards

Alan


On this next image I did not put the notations etc. they were already drawn on the picture

Alan,

I do believe you've got it cracked! Of course, that means what I thought was true of B-N hulls not having vents isn't true after all. However, I thought I saw pics of the left side that don't have grills, so perhaps they all had them on the right, but only some (Magirus?) had them on the left too.

That does also mean your earlier photo represents the bulk of the B-N output in one line-up!

As I said before, I'm not the ultimate expert on these beasts, so I'm happy to be corrected! (But less happy to have to carve vents into my kit... )

Regards,

Tom

Actually no, it is one of their more recent releases. Within 3 or 4 years. They offer it with a resin interior or without.

Me to Tom, me too.

Alan

Actually more like five years, as I've just seen two reviews dated 2005.

Thanks for the other information but Tom did point out in his review there are two versions, and in my first post I said I'd got the one with the resin extras.

cheers

Alan

Going through some more images I found this one from the Bundesarchiv which if I'm seeing correctly has the wheel hub detail of the Bussing NAG then it shows the "missing from the kit" grill. I've put in my own notation to clarify what I'm looking at to say this.



I do think however that this was only on the right hand side. Have yet to find an image of this makers version(Bussing NAG) with the vent area on the left as well, unlike the Magirus version.

Alan

Good photo but it raises another query, in the other build log the vents are said to be seven vertical louvers, if you enlarge the above photo you can see the vents quite clearly but instead of seven vertical ones it looks to only be about four horizontal ones. Or rather they run parellel to the top edge, rather than truely hosizontal, but you get what i mean.

Hi

Well to be honest I can't see what direction the grill bars/mesh goes in. I've blown the image up but for me its too pixelated to make anything out at all.

I'm not saying you are wrong, indeed I was thinking they would be in a horizontal orientation myself but I'd really like to have proof one way or the other if possible. But as "full on" side shots of the right hand side of this variant seems to be impossible to find at the moment we'll have to wait a little longer till one turns up. Given Tom's info on the number built the odds are stacked against us.


Alan

Alan,

That's a very useful picture! The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that the whole vents/no vents "wisdom" must relate to the left side only, and it seems they all had vents on the right. However, I am also willing to believe that the style of the vents varied with the chassis builder. So, while the Magirus vents look like shark's gills, these elusive B-N vents could well be horizontal. However, from the few images that suggest vents all I can see is a hole in the armour. Detail of the actual gubbins inside the hole are lacking, unlike with the Magirus ones. I assume there would have been some kind of armoured flaps like on the front, but still need to be convinced of their pattern. I really need to get my hands on the Tankograd book!

Tom

This is all I've been able to find so far that I can work with. I'm still searching for that elusive parade ground shot up nice and close, well lit and showing the louvers clearly. I know it's out there somewhere.

Bussung Nag Right side, clearly shows they had them



Ditto the left side



Not sure which version this is



This is a BN heavily enlarged and lightened. It looks to have several horizontal louvers.



This is the photo above and again what I think are horizontal louvers due to the shadowed "steps" on the right vertical. Vertical louvers would have steps along the horizontal surfaces.

The only photo I could find that shows them really clearly is a Magrius and they're also horizontal but more pornounced, which is what makes me think the unidentified variant above is a Bussing Nag as whatever it has they seem to be further inside.

Hi Dean and Tom

I don't know. I'm of a mind to say it could be either. Although going from the first picture in Dean's last post I've enlarged that and can make out some vertical lines. This has me suggesting the following.

1. The vent must be like all the others, protected from small arms fire etc. otherwise it would be a real weak spot in the design.
2. It needs to be able to open and close for ventilation depending on weather and running conditions etc.

Therefore I wonder if its a series of louvres much the same as on the front of the vehicle, but mounted internally, and any movement happens from within the hull. So what we are seeing is the vertical vanes of each louvre, overlapping each other slightly. It's why we can see it as a complete shape in photos but not the grill detail.

Just a thought. What do you think ?

Alan

Edit. Sorry Tom I just re-read your last post and I think you may be suggesting the same.

Yeah I'd go with that. The other thing that had me thinking horizontal over vertical is less likelihood of stuff getting inside.

Either way I've decided I'm going to do mine with several internal horizontal louvers and if I get proved wrong later I'll happily build another one.

Dean,

Well I'll be. It looks like everything I thought I knew was wrong! Where did you get that pic of the B-N version on railway wheels? I thought they did that to a Daimler-Benz model... It clearly has an opening in the hull behind the front wing. (It's the only one of this type that I've seen which even suggests it.) My only concern is that it has had some modifications to the stowage boxes (the box on the front wing is the type normally seen on the wings of D-B types, isn't it?) so is the vent original? Also, can we be certain it is a B-N car? Relying on the hub caps may be an issue, as I wonder if they could/would be interchangable during servicing and repairs.

(I know I'm playing devil's advocate on this pic and the safe conclusion is to accept it as a B-N with vents on the left, but it does raise some questions on vehicles that were in service for a number of years...)

The image below it sadly doesn't show the necessary area, as it is cropped off the left side of the pic. (Not sure what the dark patch is, but the location is wrong and it could be something casting a shadow...)

The shots where you reconstruct the louvres are interesting. The top one is a bit hard to believe without the eye of faith, but the lower one is certainly more believable.

So, a-cutting we will go...

Tom