Hi guys
I am looking for some information regarding the USMC use of the M46 during the Tet offensive, building from the Tamiya kit is there anything I need to be aware of regarding the USMC version (if any changes at all) and how much additional armour did they add to the turret, having seen pictures with extra track links and sand bags
Many thanks in Advance
cheers
Keith
Hosted by Darren Baker
USMC M48 Vietnam
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 02:54 AM UTC
Demchenko
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 04:02 AM UTC
Hi Keith!
Please,check your e-mail.
Vladi
Please,check your e-mail.
Vladi
HeavyArty
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 04:07 AM UTC
There were no changes made to the M48 to make it a USMC-specific tank. The amount of extra turret armor varied by tank from nothing to fully encapsulated in sand bags. The best bet is to find a pic of the tank you wantto model and follow it.
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 04:45 AM UTC
thanks Guys
trickymissfit
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 05:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There were no changes made to the M48 to make it a USMC-specific tank. The amount of extra turret armor varied by tank from nothing to fully encapsulated in sand bags. The best bet is to find a pic of the tank you wantto model and follow it.
some of the Marine M48's used a different air intake system than the ones the Army used. They had a snorkle like affair. Then there was another exhaust outfit similar to what was used on Shermans at Normandy. I've only see a couple photos of that one, and never one in the flesh. But the snorkle was not uncommon. They were also big on zippos
gary
MikeMummey
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 06:16 AM UTC
Gary, the snorkel you refer to is the Exhaust Stack for the DWFK(Deep Water Fording Kit). The engine air intakes for the M48A3 is normally from the crew compartment to the fender mounted air cleaners. The DWFK exhaust stack is usually seen mounted early in the war when the Marines were conducting amphobious opeartons along the coast. Outta here, Mike sends . . .
Tankrider
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 06:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There were no changes made to the M48 to make it a USMC-specific tank. The amount of extra turret armor varied by tank from nothing to fully encapsulated in sand bags. The best bet is to find a pic of the tank you wantto model and follow it.
Actually I believe that 3-4 Cavalry, 25th Infantry Division were the ones who "encapsulated" their M48 turrets in sandbags. Certainly, sand bags were added to other tanks as well to provide standoff and protect exposrd crew members...
Another type of expedient turret armor was extra track blocks that were routinely hung from the turret rails. they were there for replacing blocks after a mine strike but would also detonate incoming RPG rounds before striking the main armor.
John
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 07:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The DWFK exhaust stack is usually seen mounted early in the war when the Marines were conducting amphobious opeartons along the coast.
Operation Starlite, August 1965 :
Still waiting for a 1/35th scale H-34...
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 07:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Still waiting for a 1/35th scale H-34...
Aren't we all. Trumpter or Academy...are you listening?
Please!!!!
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 07:56 AM UTC
again thanks guys on a side note what where the roads constructed off in Vietnam in the cities like Hue, Saigon etc.
cobblestones, asphalt or just compacted dirt?
cheers
Keith
cobblestones, asphalt or just compacted dirt?
cheers
Keith
Demchenko
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 08:11 AM UTC
Keith,take that link for inspiration!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13476480@N07/sets/72157621494821152/
So much photos of Hue,information "overdoze"!
And more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDy0Z3HSkTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tER3EDF7h8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1IDwjBamzU
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13476480@N07/sets/72157621494821152/
So much photos of Hue,information "overdoze"!
And more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDy0Z3HSkTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tER3EDF7h8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1IDwjBamzU
Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 09:06 AM UTC
again thanks just perfect
but saw this picture and thought it may interest you Vladimir
link to picture
:D
cheers
Keith
but saw this picture and thought it may interest you Vladimir
link to picture
:D
cheers
Keith
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 10:05 AM UTC
Just to complete Vladimir's post :
Just a few Saigon streets pics :
Frenchy
Just a few Saigon streets pics :
Frenchy
jakes357
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 06:09 PM UTC
Keith,
Depended on when & where you were,larger cities in the south & highlands were mainly asphalt,outside the cities were mainly dirt,a reddish clay that was dust in the dry season and glue-like mud in the wet/rainy season in '66-'67.
Some MSR's(main supply routes)like HWY 19 were paved by US engineers as needed.The weight & frequent use,8-10 convoys daily from Quin Nhon really tore up what areas were asphalt so it was really futile.
Crushed rock was tried but the rear duals picked them up and then hurled them out at the worst possible time usually hurting someone badly.It was still used as a base,but not by itself.
Some bases used PSP(pierced steel planking)at the entrance/exit to try to reduce dust/mud.
Can't speak to north of the central highlands,all my experience was Plieku and areas south & east.
Hope this helps.
Jake
Depended on when & where you were,larger cities in the south & highlands were mainly asphalt,outside the cities were mainly dirt,a reddish clay that was dust in the dry season and glue-like mud in the wet/rainy season in '66-'67.
Some MSR's(main supply routes)like HWY 19 were paved by US engineers as needed.The weight & frequent use,8-10 convoys daily from Quin Nhon really tore up what areas were asphalt so it was really futile.
Crushed rock was tried but the rear duals picked them up and then hurled them out at the worst possible time usually hurting someone badly.It was still used as a base,but not by itself.
Some bases used PSP(pierced steel planking)at the entrance/exit to try to reduce dust/mud.
Can't speak to north of the central highlands,all my experience was Plieku and areas south & east.
Hope this helps.
Jake
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 09:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi guys
I am looking for some information regarding the USMC use of the M46 during the Tet offensive, building from the Tamiya kit is there anything I need to be aware of regarding the USMC version (if any changes at all) and how much additional armour did they add to the turret, having seen pictures with extra track links and sand bags
Many thanks in Advance
cheers
Keith
The original spotlight was a drum shaped commercial spotlight, not the rectangular one in the kit. These were seen in 1965-67. The Dragon M46 Patton kit includes a similar one as an option, as I recall.
David Douglas Duncan's photo book, "War Without Heroes" includes some good coverage of Marine M48A3's during Operation Fortress Sentry, an amphibious operation in 1967. Lots of sandbagged LVTP-5's as well.
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 10:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The original spotlight was a drum shaped commercial spotlight, not the rectangular one in the kit. These were seen in 1965-67. The Dragon M46 Patton kit includes a similar one as an option, as I recall.
It was a 18" searchlight made by Crouse-Hind (model 44676C).
Here's one fitted to a M47 :
HTH
Frenchy
joegrafton
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Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 12:20 AM UTC
Hi Keith,
I'm glad somebody has brought this subject up because I am very interested in it too.
Now, I am assuming that you are refering to the Tet '68 battle of Hue where the marines used the M48A3. In Eric Hammels' superb photo-history "The Marines in Hue City: A portrait of urban combat, Tet 1968" the tanks photographed all had the rectangular spotlight (included in the kit) if they had one fitted at all. As to standoff armour, there appears to be no tank using sandbags. They all have spare track link hanging from the turret rails. And lots of it!
Try investing in AFV Club #35005 workable track for the M48. I have bought an extra pack of it for this very reason.
Also, the book mentioned above is well worth a read!
I hope all this helps. I'm probably going to be proved wrong & somebody will supply photographic evidence to the contrary but any WIP photos of your build would be greatly appreciated.
Good luck Keith.
Joe.
I'm glad somebody has brought this subject up because I am very interested in it too.
Now, I am assuming that you are refering to the Tet '68 battle of Hue where the marines used the M48A3. In Eric Hammels' superb photo-history "The Marines in Hue City: A portrait of urban combat, Tet 1968" the tanks photographed all had the rectangular spotlight (included in the kit) if they had one fitted at all. As to standoff armour, there appears to be no tank using sandbags. They all have spare track link hanging from the turret rails. And lots of it!
Try investing in AFV Club #35005 workable track for the M48. I have bought an extra pack of it for this very reason.
Also, the book mentioned above is well worth a read!
I hope all this helps. I'm probably going to be proved wrong & somebody will supply photographic evidence to the contrary but any WIP photos of your build would be greatly appreciated.
Good luck Keith.
Joe.
Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 02:33 AM UTC
thanks Joe
I have that book on its way from Amazon so I am holding off a little until it arrives, i already have the image of the diorama in my head and I am currently gathering all the pieces together before I start.
I will post some pictures once I get going, I have a set of the AFV club tracks on the way but it looks like I may need another set ;D
cheers
Keith
I have that book on its way from Amazon so I am holding off a little until it arrives, i already have the image of the diorama in my head and I am currently gathering all the pieces together before I start.
I will post some pictures once I get going, I have a set of the AFV club tracks on the way but it looks like I may need another set ;D
cheers
Keith
trickymissfit
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Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 04:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gary, the snorkel you refer to is the Exhaust Stack for the DWFK(Deep Water Fording Kit). The engine air intakes for the M48A3 is normally from the crew compartment to the fender mounted air cleaners. The DWFK exhaust stack is usually seen mounted early in the war when the Marines were conducting amphobious opeartons along the coast. Outta here, Mike sends . . .
your probably right! I just remember the stack sticking up, and always thought it was the air intake.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 04:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThere were no changes made to the M48 to make it a USMC-specific tank. The amount of extra turret armor varied by tank from nothing to fully encapsulated in sand bags. The best bet is to find a pic of the tank you wantto model and follow it.
Actually I believe that 3-4 Cavalry, 25th Infantry Division were the ones who "encapsulated" their M48 turrets in sandbags. Certainly, sand bags were added to other tanks as well to provide standoff and protect exposrd crew members...
Another type of expedient turret armor was extra track blocks that were routinely hung from the turret rails. they were there for replacing blocks after a mine strike but would also detonate incoming RPG rounds before striking the main armor.
John
sand bg armor was used by everybody at one time or another (actually the bags were not filled with sand, but clay). The 3/4 CAV was also big on the use of PSP plat for additional armor protection
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 05:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Keith,
Depended on when & where you were,larger cities in the south & highlands were mainly asphalt,outside the cities were mainly dirt,a reddish clay that was dust in the dry season and glue-like mud in the wet/rainy season in '66-'67.
Some MSR's(main supply routes)like HWY 19 were paved by US engineers as needed.The weight & frequent use,8-10 convoys daily from Quin Nhon really tore up what areas were asphalt so it was really futile.
Crushed rock was tried but the rear duals picked them up and then hurled them out at the worst possible time usually hurting someone badly.It was still used as a base,but not by itself.
Some bases used PSP(pierced steel planking)at the entrance/exit to try to reduce dust/mud.
Can't speak to north of the central highlands,all my experience was Plieku and areas south & east.
Hope this helps.
Jake
Chu Lai had the southern ten miles or so black topped right after Tet in 68. Seems like they went all the way south to Gator and maybe Bein Son bridge. Before that Highway was mostly gravel all the way down to who knows where. The story went that it made it harder to plant mines in the road. From the Anton bridge near Fat City (the real one) all the way north to who only knows where it was gravel. Da Nang had a black top strip that went a few miles north and south. The real bad thing abou the gravel roads was picking up pieces of steel in the tires.
gary
joegrafton
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Posted: Friday, June 25, 2010 - 06:24 AM UTC
No problem Keith,
Just out of interest, what other bits & pieces are you looking to get. I might be able to point you in the right direction as I have gotten hold of lots of stuff for this kit as I intend to build a USMC M48A3 during Tet as one of my future builds. You can PM me if you like.
Joe.
Just out of interest, what other bits & pieces are you looking to get. I might be able to point you in the right direction as I have gotten hold of lots of stuff for this kit as I intend to build a USMC M48A3 during Tet as one of my future builds. You can PM me if you like.
Joe.
Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 09:37 AM UTC
hi all
just another question on the M48 I have noticed in a few of my reference pictures in the USMC in Hue book that some of the M48s had the barrel removed from the machine gun turret on top of the main turret.
Was that done often or what was the main reason for removing it? They did then appear to then mount 50cals on the top of the machine gun turret instead
image used from prime portal
cheers
Keith
just another question on the M48 I have noticed in a few of my reference pictures in the USMC in Hue book that some of the M48s had the barrel removed from the machine gun turret on top of the main turret.
Was that done often or what was the main reason for removing it? They did then appear to then mount 50cals on the top of the machine gun turret instead
image used from prime portal
cheers
Keith
joegrafton
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Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 09:41 AM UTC
Hi Keith,
The .50cal was mounted on its side in that small turret & used to jam very easily. It could also only be loaded with about 50 rounds which is a real lady during a serious firefight as it was a mother to reload in such cramped conditions. Also, being in Vietnam it was very hot so crews found it much easier to fire from the top mounted position.
I hope this helps.
Joe.
The .50cal was mounted on its side in that small turret & used to jam very easily. It could also only be loaded with about 50 rounds which is a real lady during a serious firefight as it was a mother to reload in such cramped conditions. Also, being in Vietnam it was very hot so crews found it much easier to fire from the top mounted position.
I hope this helps.
Joe.
Posted: Monday, July 05, 2010 - 09:44 AM UTC
excellent thanks Joe