OK, Frenchy, got any photos, LOL?
Seriously, did the Sd.Kfz.11 tow it? Trucks? I know there was a horse-drawn version with wooden wheels.
The new AFV Club sIG 33 has wooden wheels as a variant on the towed version if I understand the directions correctly. Did any of the motorized towed versions have that kind of hybrid wheels?
Hosted by Darren Baker
What vehicle(s) towed the sIG 33 gun?
bill_c
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 11:17 AM UTC
Frenchy
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 11:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
OK, Frenchy, got any photos, LOL?
What about a captured T-20 Komsomolet
: 
Frenchy
gremlinz
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 12:16 PM UTC
My big problem was the only photos I was ever able to find of it being towed showed it with a limber but none of the photos of it in action showed a limber.
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 12:57 PM UTC
You probably could get away with using the Tamiya limber from their field kitchen. (Academy also does this kit--- it's actually the same as the Tamyia kit but runs a few dollars cheaper) You may have to change it a little to represent that ammo carrying version (a caisson)
gremlinz
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 03:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You probably could get away with using the Tamiya limber from their field kitchen. (Academy also does this kit--- it's actually the same as the Tamyia kit but runs a few dollars cheaper) You may have to change it a little to represent that ammo carrying version (a caisson)
Good idea, and I already have several of the Tamiya Field Kitchens so I'm off to look into finding a decent photo of one ( as an ammo limber that is ).
Oh yeah, the only photos of it I ever came across of it being towed were horse drawn, but there's plenty of photos of similar sized pieces being towed and always by either an Sd.Kfz.6 or an Sd.Kfz.11
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 03:52 PM UTC
Actually if it was being towed by a Sd.Kfz.6 or an Sd.Kfz.11, it probably would not be towing a caisson, since the ready rounds would be carried in the towing vehicle. The rest of the ammo would be carried in support vehicles. The T-20 Komsomolet picture above is using the caisson, since it barely had room to carry it's crew.
gremlinz
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 04:02 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually if it was being towed by a Sd.Kfz.6 or an Sd.Kfz.11, it probably would not be towing a caisson, since the ready rounds would be carried in the towing vehicle. The rest of the ammo would be carried in support vehicles. The T-20 Komsomolet picture above is using the caisson, since it barely had room to carry it's crew.
Yup, I'm doing it horse drawn. The photos I've seen of Sd.Kfz.11 and Sd.Kfz.6 tractors towing other guns have no limber, but all the horse drawn ones do.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 04:13 PM UTC
Well, I was able to find this one 'seemingly' being towed by an Sdkfz.10
It certainly looks like an s.I.G.33 based on the shield, the wheels (similar to the second Dragon offering - not the CH one), and the single large spade on top of the gun.
Rob
It certainly looks like an s.I.G.33 based on the shield, the wheels (similar to the second Dragon offering - not the CH one), and the single large spade on top of the gun.
Rob
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 04:21 PM UTC
Horsey pulled, that's great. Keep us posted as you don't see that too often.
GALILEO1
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 04:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Horsey pulled, that's great. Keep us posted as you don't see that too often.
Yeah, I like that set up as well!
Rob
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 05:50 PM UTC
Nice photo Rob.
Hut
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Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 11:17 PM UTC
Hello,
My sources tell me that during 1942 and 1943 the KSTN.s state that the Sd Kfz 10 was the official designated towing vehicle for the 15 cm sIG 33 (in one load).
That does of course not mean no other combinations will occur, as in emergencies or due to lack of prime movers other vehicles would be used.
Cheers,
Pascal
My sources tell me that during 1942 and 1943 the KSTN.s state that the Sd Kfz 10 was the official designated towing vehicle for the 15 cm sIG 33 (in one load).
That does of course not mean no other combinations will occur, as in emergencies or due to lack of prime movers other vehicles would be used.
Cheers,
Pascal
Fitz
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 01:32 AM UTC
Given that it was an infantry gun, deployed at regimental level and there was never anything remotely resembling enough motor transport to go around I suspect the vast majority were horse-drawn.
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 01:44 AM UTC
There are several pictures of Sd.Kfz.251's pulling this gun, too.
bill_c
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 08:21 AM UTC
Hmmm, interesting. 
I am going to be reviewing some pre-war camo colors and would like to double my fun by including the AFV Club sIG 33 being towed.
What did the Sd.Kfz.11 tow? Naturally, AFV Club shows it towing their new sIG 33.
I am going to be reviewing some pre-war camo colors and would like to double my fun by including the AFV Club sIG 33 being towed.
What did the Sd.Kfz.11 tow? Naturally, AFV Club shows it towing their new sIG 33.
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 08:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What did the Sd.Kfz.11 tow?
It was also used to tow the 10,5-cm leichte Feldhaubitze 18
Frenchy
bill_c
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 08:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It was also used to tow the 10,5-cm leichte Feldhaubitze 18.
Yes, of course, what WAS I thinking? AFV Club has that 2 in 1 set.
Does anyone know if the mechanized towed version of the sIG 33 was even in existence prior to the war?
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 09:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Does anyone know if the mechanized towed version of the sIG 33 was even in existence prior to the war?
Not sure about that...In the pics you'll find at the end of this thread :
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/thread/1220044820/Reichswehr+artillery+weapons showing sIG 33s at the factory (probably Rheinmetall Borsig ) before the war, the carriages are still fitted with pressed steel wheels with metal rims for horse traction.
The British Pathé movie they come from is here :
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=50324&session_lightbox_add=1&record_id=50324&media_urn=58515
HTH
Frenchy
gremlinz
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 10:19 AM UTC
I don't have my hands on a copy so can't say how much info it has but Nuts & Bolts #19 covers the sIG33 on its own as well as on the Bison.
bill_c
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Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 - 02:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't have my hands on a copy so can't say how much info it has but Nuts & Bolts #19 covers the sIG33 on its own as well as on the Bison.
Does anyone have this book? I have looked in vain so far for documentation about the sIG 33 stand-alone gun. Everything is part of some tracked vehicle, including most of the photos on the Internet I've run across.
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 - 03:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't have my hands on a copy so can't say how much info it has but Nuts & Bolts #19 covers the sIG33 on its own as well as on the Bison.
Does anyone have this book? I have looked in vain so far for documentation about the sIG 33 stand-alone gun. Everything is part of some tracked vehicle, including most of the photos on the Internet I've run across.
I don´t have the book either but in Wydawnictwo Militaria 247 book "15cm sIG 33 auf Pz.Kpfw I / II / III" it states the following;
.. Prime movers were also used for towing. Initially, they were light 1 ton Zgkw Sd.Kfz.10, later they were 3 ton Zgkw Sd.Kfz.11 (introduced in 1944), as well as armoured personel carriers Sd.Kfz.251 both in standard version and especially adopted for gun towing ...Sd.Kfz.251/4. RSO and vehicles captured from the enemy e.g. Soviet tracked tractors STZ-5 NATI were also used.
No images of drawn sIG33 s are shown.
Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 - 04:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am going to be reviewing some pre-war camo colors and would like to double my fun by including the AFV Club sIG 33 being towed. What did the Sd.Kfz.11 tow? Naturally, AFV Club shows it towing their new sIG 33.
Here you go Bill!
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
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Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 - 04:19 AM UTC
Thanks, Frank, that's VERY helpful. But I'm also confused by the sentence:
Obviously they can't mean the Sd.Kfz.11, since it was introduced in 1938 or '39.
Also, I'd be curious to know what is meant by:
What made an Sd.Kfz.251 in gun-towing mode different from a regular vehicle? Were there special bins for stowing ammo? A big-assed trailer hitch?
Quoted Text
Later they were 3 ton Zgkw Sd.Kfz.11 (introduced in 1944).
Obviously they can't mean the Sd.Kfz.11, since it was introduced in 1938 or '39.
Also, I'd be curious to know what is meant by:
Quoted Text
... as well as armoured personel carriers Sd.Kfz.251 both in standard version and especially adopted for gun towing
What made an Sd.Kfz.251 in gun-towing mode different from a regular vehicle? Were there special bins for stowing ammo? A big-assed trailer hitch?
Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 - 08:10 AM UTC
Hi Bill. Not sure what the meant by "(introduced in 1944)." ... I wrote it down ... word by word from the book.
Im assuming the second part is just a clarification. The 251/4 was assigned to be a gun towing tractor, but any 251 would do the trick.
Im assuming the second part is just a clarification. The 251/4 was assigned to be a gun towing tractor, but any 251 would do the trick.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 - 08:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What made an Sd.Kfz.251 in gun-towing mode different from a regular vehicle? Were there special bins for stowing ammo? A big-assed trailer hitch?
Bill
According to Terry Ashley's AFV Club Sd.Kfz 251/4 review , some troop seats were removed and replaced with ammo containers.
Frenchy
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