I'm going to be building the HobbyBoss 1/48 M4A3E8 Korean War Sherman, and I'm having trouble finding good references of foundry marking on the upper hull and transmission cover. What few images I've seen of the transmission covers on these tanks are devoid of any foundry marks, which if I understand correctly would be very unusual?

I'm wondering if what I should do is substitute the kit supplied upper hull and transmission housing with the M4A3 Late Upper Hull and M4 Late Cast Transmission Housing from the Tank Workshop 1/48 line.

Would these be correct to use on the M4A3E8? Or would I end up creating something that doesn't exist if I used these parts on my kit?
Much thanks

Jeremy

I don't know, but maybe try looking at pics on toadmanstankpics - ??? I think that's the site spelling for Toadman's

That was a good call, but he doesn't have a gallery for an M4A3E8, which is kinda disappointing.

All cast parts had markings for tracebility of defects. They frequently can't be seen in perid photos and are often ignored by walk-arounds. This page has good photos of the various marks on an M4A3(76) that would be useable. While not an HVSS, most M4A3(76) tanks were converted to HVSS in the late 1940's, so this would be perfectly acceptable for a Korean War tank. (It is also quite plausible for a WW II M4A3(76) HVSS).

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Tanks_in_France/sherman_villesurillon/index.html

KL

Uhh...actually, I have two of them:
M4A3(76)HVSS
and M4A3(76)HVSS page 2

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures

Again, my knowledge of Sherman variants is almost nonexistant, but what I think you both are telling me is that the M4A3E8 and the M4A3 (76) are the same beast (with different suspension)? If so, then I have more information than I've realized.

If this is true then no offense meant Chris, it's just my own lack of knowledge of this subject combined with my awareness that there are quite a lot of variances found in Shermans.

What I'm gathering is that the M4A3 line all share the same upper hull, but they used two types of transmission cover. The later being the 47degree design, which I cant seem to find pictures that show foundry marks, save for this one in your gallery Chris.

There's the M4A3(76)VVSS and the M4A3(76)HVSS, same tank with different suspension/track. The M4A3(76)HVSS is commonly known as the M4A3E8.

Thanks Sabot, that really helps clear things up for me. I think Shermans may be one of the most confusing tanks in regards to variants and such things.

Much thanks for the help and clarification Greg, Kurt, Chris, and Sabot. I now know what I need.

The new Tankworkshop M4A3 Upper Hull and Sharpnose Transmission cover should work for your project, they have the casting/foundry marks on them.

It's really not so confusing; it's just a matter of a tank that stayed in production throughout the entire war and beyond. As a new component became available, it was incorporated into the assembly line often blurring the distinction between an early production, mid production and late production tank.

Since everyone was making them, some components became limited and caused the Army to look at various ways to power them. Most of the Sherman variants/marks are based on different engines installed. A different gun or even turret didn't change the mark, it was the engine.

The only exception to this was between the original welded hull M4 and cast hull M4A1. They had the same engine.

Jeremy,

The M4A3 upper hull had only one piece of cast plate over the hatches, and its markings were next to the driver's side. The late "sharpened beak" transmission often seems to have markings underneath. This is what I did on a temporarily stalled project: M36B1 build

The M36B1 used the M4A3 hull, so the parts you want should be the same. Each marking has a drawing number (E8543 for the tranny) then a part number, then a heat-treatment batch number. There are variations in these last numbers, presumably based on the foundry, but what mattered is the Army could track down all the defective parts from a single batch if needed.

My numbers are a tad overscale for 1:35, but Archer makes a lovely sheet of resin numbers that apply like decals!

Tom

Bob: Thanks!

Sabot: It's all a matter of perspective, and when it comes to Shermans, I have very little. The answers and information you and others are providing me with is helping me to establish a good baseline that is helping me to gain perspective in regards to variants, foundry marks, and other such things in the world of Shermans.

Tom: Thanks, that's great stuff! I hope to use some of those Archer foundry marks on my future 1/35 builds. It would be nice if they offered them in quarter scale, or maybe they do and I'm just not aware of it If I remember correctly, didn't I see the pic of the foundry marks on the transmission cover of your M36B1 in the Sherman campaign a short time ago?

Some late "sharp nosed" differential covers had the casting marks in the front. Again, from Toadman's site, here is a differential from an M43

http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/m43_13.jpg

Jeremy, the Archer sheet of casting numbers has different sizes of the same markings, for use in 1:35 and 1:48 at least... A couple are a little off and a number sequence or two are a digit off... BUT easy to use and effective...
Brad

Jeremy,

Like Brad says, the Archer sheet claims to cover 1:35, 1:48, and 1:72. I have one here and it certainly does the two bigger scales, but for the 1:72 stuff I can't actually read it without a microscope! I may use some on my Tasca build.

Tom

Roy: Thanks, that looks consistant with the few other ones I've seen so far.

Brad & Tom: This is great. I'm going to working in all three scales, at least briefly, so I'll be making good use of the Archer foundry marks if I have a chance to pick some up.

Depending on the foundry that cast them, many of the later one-piece cast transmission housings had the foundry marks on the bottom of the casting rather than the top, so the markings are usually very hard to see unless you get down to look at the bottom of the casting.

The foundry markings on many of the sharp-nose (later) cast transmission housings were on the bottom of the casting rather than the top. The TW part would be an excellent replacement, but since the numbers would not normally be visible, it can be considered optional. However, the hull of the Hobby Boss M4A3E8 is not correct, and I would definitely recommend replacing it with the TW M4A3 large hatch upper hull. Since you are building a Korean War E8, you can use the turret and mantlet as they are in the kit, with the canvas dust cover. For a WW2 Easy Eight, you would have to replace the turret with the later turret from the M4A3 76mm VVSS Sherman kit, since WW2 E8s didn't use the dust cover, and the E8 turret cannot be built without the cover. HTH, BC

Wow Bruce, you must have really been digging to find this query! Thanks for the insight. The HobbyBoss upper hull is really soft on detail and would be hard to fix without hacking it up and scratching. I'll definitely consider adding the transmission cover to my order for this kit in addition to the upper hull

Don't forget to add the corrected suspension set that is also now available from TWS. The Hobby Boss kit parts, as used, will make the suspension units sit too high.You might want to also add the Sharp nosed tranny cover as it has the Casting numbers on it as Bruce stated, it also has the drain plugs on the bottom and is better textured.