Thanks!
Steve
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Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
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A Better Russian/Soviet Green?
95bravo
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Armorama: 504 posts
Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:20 AM UTC
Can anyone suggest a better color or color combination to produce a better Russian armor green than the MM Russian Armor Green? Theirs always seems too blue and most images I've seen the green seems more of an olive drab/yellowish hue. I use enamels so suggestions in that medium would be helpful
Thanks!
Steve
Thanks!
Steve
tankrou
Joined: November 25, 2009
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 53 posts
Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:45 AM UTC
try tamiyas yellow green,mix it with olive green and bingo!!!acrylics are healthier too!
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Can anyone suggest a better color or color combination to produce a better Russian armor green than the MM Russian Armor Green? Theirs always seems too blue and most images I've seen the green seems more of an olive drab/yellowish hue. I use enamels so suggestions in that medium would be helpful
Thanks!
Steve
FS-34102 or FS-34095 are respectable matches to 4BO Protective Green from the World War Two era. Both are available as USAF camouflage colors. The official Soviet specs gave considerable leeway in the pigment mix, and the pigments tended to darken with age rather than fade, due to chemical instability.
zokissima
Joined: February 09, 2004
KitMaker: 259 posts
Armorama: 217 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 04:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
try tamiyas yellow green,mix it with olive green and bingo!!!acrylics are healthier too!
+1 to this. I usually start off with the MM Russian Armor Green (in the Acryl line) and add in a bit of Tamiya Yellow Green to give it a more olive colour.
No, mixing the two has not given me any issues at all.
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 05:23 AM UTC
Mike Rinaldi fell in love with Lifecolor's Dark Green. Its an Acrylic, however. Personally, I use Tamiya's NATO green.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 06:36 AM UTC
Thanks.Gerald you are always there with the technical data,your informative contributions to the forum are always appreciated !!
95bravo
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Armorama: 504 posts
Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 06:29 AM UTC
Okay, it seems I may be taking the acrylic route. The places I normally find MM does not have the colors I need. So, how do you prevent clogs? I use Paasche double action and have had bad experiences with acrylics in the past. More importantly what are you using to clean your airbrush? Lastly, can I shoot MM clear gloss over acrylics or do I need to use an acrylic gloss?
Thanks for all the very useful information and your time. If this thing turns out respectably, I 'll post some pics.
Thanks again
Steve
Thanks for all the very useful information and your time. If this thing turns out respectably, I 'll post some pics.
Thanks again
Steve
juge75
Joined: May 02, 2009
KitMaker: 843 posts
Armorama: 841 posts
Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 08:13 AM UTC
Mixed Gunze H-340+H-303 (Field green Fs34097+ Light olive green Fs34102).
andymacrae
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 09:44 AM UTC
I've ordered AKAN paints 4BO green. They seem to have quite a good reputation for colour accuracy for Soviet stuff so when it arrives I'll let folk know what it's like.
Andy
Andy
todorovicandreas
Joined: May 01, 2007
KitMaker: 608 posts
Armorama: 593 posts
Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:05 AM UTC
Andy, where did you get the AKAN paints from?
All the best,
Andreas
All the best,
Andreas
SEDimmick
Joined: March 15, 2002
KitMaker: 1,745 posts
Armorama: 1,483 posts
Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 11:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've ordered AKAN paints 4BO green. They seem to have quite a good reputation for colour accuracy for Soviet stuff so when it arrives I'll let folk know what it's like.
Andy
I used it on my Tamiya BT-7 and they are pretty nice paint. However it looks ALOT like Tamiya NATO green and I bet after some weathering they'll wind up looking nearly identical to one another.
bobbyh
Joined: September 09, 2009
KitMaker: 433 posts
Armorama: 167 posts
Posted: Monday, October 04, 2010 - 05:07 PM UTC
Hi steven, first I used acrylics for a while ( spray and brush) I ended up switching back to enamels because I get better coverage ( no splotching) and thinner coats. Second as far as a good soviet green goes, I mix all my own colors ( I prefer that because of truer colors and selection) also I buy my paint in bulk for the discount. I typically buy ; yellow, red, blue, black, white, steel, aluminum, and limited burnt metal, titanium,etc... That said... my path to soviet green begins with 1-blue, 2-3 yellow, add just alittle black , mix together, so you get a feel for the color then steadly add red alittle at a time till I feel the color is right. I usually paint a few test scraps, then check it when dry to see if satisfied. Sorry for the long explanation and it may not be as P.C. or technical as some of the other guys but it does seem to make a pretty decent soviet green. If you need I can try and post some pic's, let me know. good luck - Bobby
zokissima
Joined: February 09, 2004
KitMaker: 259 posts
Armorama: 217 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 08:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay, it seems I may be taking the acrylic route. The places I normally find MM does not have the colors I need. So, how do you prevent clogs? I use Paasche double action and have had bad experiences with acrylics in the past. More importantly what are you using to clean your airbrush? Lastly, can I shoot MM clear gloss over acrylics or do I need to use an acrylic gloss?
Thanks for all the very useful information and your time. If this thing turns out respectably, I 'll post some pics.
Thanks again
Steve
I typically thin with tamiya thinner to the consistency of 2% milk, so about 50/50 paint/thinner mix, and do not really have clogging problems. Just make sure that the original paint is well stirred into the carrier before mixing. You can add a drop of dishwashing detergent to the mix to slow down drying time and clogging.
For cleaning the airbrush, I just crank the pressure, and run several cups of Windex window cleaner through, then a cup of distilled water, and its as clean as can be. The ammonia in the Windex will cut right through any leftover acrylic paint.
Lastly, no you do not need to use an acrylic gloss. Allow the final layer of paint to cure for about a day, then spray over that any gloss you wish. If you're wary of trying it on your work in progress, just do it on a scrap piece of plastic first.
95bravo
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Armorama: 504 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 12:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I typically thin with tamiya thinner to the consistency of 2% milk, so about 50/50 paint/thinner mix, and do not really have clogging problems. Just make sure that the original paint is well stirred into the carrier before mixing. You can add a drop of dishwashing detergent to the mix to slow down drying time and clogging.
For cleaning the airbrush, I just crank the pressure, and run several cups of Windex window cleaner through, then a cup of distilled water, and its as clean as can be. The ammonia in the Windex will cut right through any leftover acrylic paint.
Lastly, no you do not need to use an acrylic gloss. Allow the final layer of paint to cure for about a day, then spray over that any gloss you wish. If you're wary of trying it on your work in progress, just do it on a scrap piece of plastic first.
Thank you very much. I will give this a try.
Thanks to everyone who has responded. This has been very useful!
Steve
bobbyh
Joined: September 09, 2009
KitMaker: 433 posts
Armorama: 167 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 01:27 PM UTC
Here you go Steve, this is an example of my home brew Soviet Green. This after 2 coats, by brush, no weathering yet, so you can see true color. The model in background is meant as a color reference. I also took photos under 2 true light, light bulbs. I work under these ( 2 so I minimize shadows) instead of ordinary "yellow" light house bulbs to get truer colors. - Bobbyandymacrae
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 01:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Andy, where did you get the AKAN paints from?
All the best,
Andreas
Hi Andreas,
I got them from here:
http://armory.in.ua
I had no problems with order ( I used Paypal to pay) and delivery to UK.
HTH
Andy
TankTrap
Joined: December 08, 2006
KitMaker: 456 posts
Armorama: 403 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 11:31 PM UTC
For WW2 soviet green i go with tamiya nato green but i always add other colours to it with random non calculated outcomes.
Reason:
The russians didn't really have a specific green they used.
And the mixes of greens changed alot.
Thats why some tanks you see are lighter/darker than others.
Here is a pic of a kv2 i have.
and
Reason:
The russians didn't really have a specific green they used.
And the mixes of greens changed alot.
Thats why some tanks you see are lighter/darker than others.
Here is a pic of a kv2 i have.
and
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 06:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay, it seems I may be taking the acrylic route. The places I normally find MM does not have the colors I need. So, how do you prevent clogs?Thanks again
Steve
After thinning, I like to strain it through a piece of panty hose. You'll see tiny chunks of paint, especially if it's a bottle that has been opened before.
Maurice
Joined: September 11, 2006
KitMaker: 254 posts
Armorama: 75 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 07:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
A Better Russian/Soviet Green?
You might also like to try Vallejo 894 Russian Green, which corresponds with FS34083.
vernknight
Joined: October 11, 2010
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Monday, October 18, 2010 - 07:44 AM UTC
I have been having this same problem with a Dragon T-34/85. Russian armor green is far too dark. I'm going to try drybrushing some medium green to lighten it up, then some lighter filters. U.S. medium green is a pretty close match too. Granted, colors varied considerably, so it's not that big of a deal, just find something your happy with.
95bravo
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Armorama: 504 posts
Posted: Friday, October 29, 2010 - 10:29 AM UTC
Okay, went the acrylics route. I took it on faith you guys knew what you were talking about. 
I have to say... I was pleased. Thanks to all of your advice and suggestions, the session wasn't the fiasco I had encountered the last time I used acrylics. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised by how more forgiving it seemed in comparison to shooting enamels. I used a 50/50 thinning ratio as was suggested, the dish washing liquid as suggested, 20 Psi and was very happy (as was my wife) the operation did not require me in a HazMat suit and ventilating the entire house. The Tamiya olive green seemed Soviet-ish enough for me, although it did seem really dark, but I think this will even out once I weather it. I'll post some images here later. The project is the DML T-80 w/ERA.
There was one thing that did bother me though. Acrylic seems to set more on the surface than really suck-down to it. I'm not sure if that's because it is so ultra flat or the fact that it hasn't been sealed. It didn't detract from the detail in any way it just looks...Odd.
Thanks again for all your help! It was a happy experience!
Steve
I have to say... I was pleased. Thanks to all of your advice and suggestions, the session wasn't the fiasco I had encountered the last time I used acrylics. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised by how more forgiving it seemed in comparison to shooting enamels. I used a 50/50 thinning ratio as was suggested, the dish washing liquid as suggested, 20 Psi and was very happy (as was my wife) the operation did not require me in a HazMat suit and ventilating the entire house. The Tamiya olive green seemed Soviet-ish enough for me, although it did seem really dark, but I think this will even out once I weather it. I'll post some images here later. The project is the DML T-80 w/ERA.There was one thing that did bother me though. Acrylic seems to set more on the surface than really suck-down to it. I'm not sure if that's because it is so ultra flat or the fact that it hasn't been sealed. It didn't detract from the detail in any way it just looks...Odd.
Thanks again for all your help! It was a happy experience!
Steve
95bravo
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Armorama: 504 posts
Posted: Friday, October 29, 2010 - 10:44 AM UTC
Here are a couple of shots in progress. It was never my intent to paint this much the first time I tried the acrylic, but it was working so well I just couldn't stop myself! 
The model is much further along. I have since added the ERA (which was a fiddly operation to say the least.) and I'm in the final stages of completion.
The model is much further along. I have since added the ERA (which was a fiddly operation to say the least.) and I'm in the final stages of completion. 18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Friday, October 29, 2010 - 11:08 AM UTC
I think the T-62 above is a little dark, but as has been mentioned, there's could be quite a variation in paints, especially over a span of years.
During the eighties, I regularly encountered Soviet equipment in East Berlin that was lighter in color. I have a floor panel from a BRDM-2 in Afghanistan what one must assume is 80's era as well:
Because it is an interior panel, I'm guessing it was not subject to any fading from the sun. I've taken interior paint chips from it, and a few other vehicles over there, and it comes out to be an ALMOST perfect match to Testors Forest Green, FS 34127.
This photo may or may not reflect that, although I took it in natural sunlight. My camera, your screen, the lighting, all may affect your perception of what you're seeing, but trust me, when it's in front of you, it matches up well.
Of course, this particular color DID fade in this environment . I used Faded Olive (Polly S Acrylic?) to replicate this, and it was perfect.
During the eighties, I regularly encountered Soviet equipment in East Berlin that was lighter in color. I have a floor panel from a BRDM-2 in Afghanistan what one must assume is 80's era as well:
Because it is an interior panel, I'm guessing it was not subject to any fading from the sun. I've taken interior paint chips from it, and a few other vehicles over there, and it comes out to be an ALMOST perfect match to Testors Forest Green, FS 34127.
This photo may or may not reflect that, although I took it in natural sunlight. My camera, your screen, the lighting, all may affect your perception of what you're seeing, but trust me, when it's in front of you, it matches up well.
Of course, this particular color DID fade in this environment . I used Faded Olive (Polly S Acrylic?) to replicate this, and it was perfect.
95bravo
Joined: November 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,242 posts
Armorama: 504 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 10:18 AM UTC
Looking at those panels, I'd say that the olive green is the way to go.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 31, 2010 - 05:15 AM UTC
For some reason, I can no longer edit posts after a day or so (Although the need to revise history doesn't occur for me ) but I wanted to remove any ambiguity from my last post.
The interior panels were unfaded and were a near dead match for Testors Forest Green.
The EXTERIORS of the tanks in Afganistan, subject to years in the sun, did fade to a color that matched Polly S Faded Olive nicely. Here's a photo I posted recently of THE SAME vehicle the panel is from. Note the difference:
) but I wanted to remove any ambiguity from my last post.The interior panels were unfaded and were a near dead match for Testors Forest Green.
The EXTERIORS of the tanks in Afganistan, subject to years in the sun, did fade to a color that matched Polly S Faded Olive nicely. Here's a photo I posted recently of THE SAME vehicle the panel is from. Note the difference:
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