Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Yannis Hobbies closing.
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California, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 05:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Al left D&J several years ago. I see him at Jacques Littlefield's place periodically as he volunteers there with me.

What is Jacques Littlefields?? Ask AL if he is willing to teach me how to paint a carrier deck yet. He promised me when I was sixteen that he'd eventually teach me.
Cheers.



Jacques Littlefield's is this: Military Vehicle Technology Foundation in Portola Valley.

I'll email Al this weekend and see if it's okay with him for me to give you his contact info.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
didgeboy
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 06:30 AM UTC
Bill;
I can say that you are not correct, and I can prove it. In my town there is no Hobby Shop. We have a gourmet grocer (me) that sells cheese, charcuterie, wine and such. There is a bakery that makes fresh artisan bread every day. We have over 100 wineries. We have a local chocolate maker and candy store. We have a local toy shop. We have a comic book shop. We even have a butcher shop that raises its own animals, all grass fed. There are people in the community that support these businesses. Every day they make a conscious decision to shop at one of these stores rather than go to Wal Mart or a supermarket. Sometimes there are things that the box store and the super market have that no one else does. But it is the conscious decision that makes the difference. If you give people the chance to shop locally and explain to them the importance and benefit of that decision 9 times out of 10 you'd see people make that decision. Which is again why, if there was a place online that we could all go to find local hobby shops, maybe Yanni's would still be in business. Had I known he was there last summer (when I discovered that SA Hobbies was no longer) I could have drove down the block and spent my money with him, happily. When I go to Seattle or Portland on business I try to drop by the local shops that I know of and buy my supplies there. I think if you give people the choice between instant gratification and waiting for the post, they'll choose the instant, I know I would.
Administrators! Are you listening??!! Lets get a board up where people can post their local shops name, number and address. Give people a place where they can post reviews. Give the shops a chance to post pictures or a link for a small fee, I am sure that many will see the benefit, if the cost is right. Offer them the chance to put an advertisement up there to promote their shop. If people are posting reviews they might just realize that they are doing the right thing or they need to change their inventory a bit. If this is a community let's help all of our community by doing this. Heck, it really only benefits all of us in the end. Cheers.
bill_c
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 07:01 AM UTC
Damon, we'll agree to disagree. I'm in the food marketing business, and while there are niche retailers who do well, eventually most categories succumb to the larger retailers for some specific reasons, including economies of scale. Your post is very passionate, and my heart is with you. But there's a fundamental difference between selling locally-grown food products and models that are the same, whether ordered from Hong Kong or purchased in a bricks & mortar store. Consumers will pay more for "locavore" food choices, but not for a kit they can get for up to half the price on the Internet (and if you buy in bulk, there's no shipping charges).

Like I say, my heart is with you.

But my head says that the LHS doesn't stand a chance long-term.

Some will survive, but overall they are undermined by the manufacturers who sell both to them and to Internet retailers. The latter can undercut them in a variety of ways, and without a conscious decision to spend more per kit (something few people will do), the LHS can't compete with the guy in Oshkosh who has little or no overhead, and who can make profits selling in bulk. As you undoubtedly know, retailers pay interest on the money they borrow to purchase inventory, so the guy who can unload his inventory quicker is going to make more money than the guy who has a stock of un-bought Sd.Kfz.7s he's keeping around in case I walk in and have to have one.

The same thing happened a few years back when I was in hockey equipment testing: the manufacturers couldn't resist selling to Sports Authority, and even though they developed a "cheaper" line for SA, it still killed off local skate shops. The the Internet retailers undercut both of them.

When a business must survive on the kindness of strangers....
didgeboy
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 11:22 AM UTC
I agree with your last post but this is not a concrete issue. If someone can get the same product from me that they can from say Amazon, then what reason do they have to buy from me? In my business we provide something that Amazon or anywhere else cannot. Instant gratification. We have other selling points too, but you see what I am getting at. If we lose the local shops all we are left with is the onliners. Eventually those will be lost to ebay or vise versa, and we'll be left with few to no choices. Competition is good, but the local guys need to be supported or you'll have no place to go and buy that item, be it a kit, a tool or a bottle of paint when you really need it. Again I think we really need to create a resource here for consumers. A list of local hobby shops by area, with the ability to post reviews and even pictures. If we can give these guys a direct link to their customers maybe we can keep them in business so that they ARE there when we need them. Cheers.
Rouse713
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 01:06 PM UTC
Hey guys,

This is a very sensitive subject. With that said, I have some problems with LHS (or at least the ones around me).

I love to go to them and browse around, buy a kit here and there. One time, I bought:

2 - Dragon kits
~7 jars of paint
miscellaneous tape, glue, and some sanders
---------------------
$230

I have also ordered from Greatmodels and got 6 dragon kits (3 premium, 1 cyber hobby) for about $200. Also, I got the exact kits I wanted.

The problem I have with hobby stores, is they really never depreciate the value of the kits they have. Funny exampe:

Dragon's old old hornisse - $55
Dragon's premium nashorn - $60
Dragon's new nashorn - $58

Why are the old nashorn's the same price as the new ones?!?!?! That is probably the biggest gripe I have.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, you may hate me for this next section, but if LHS are not providing a special service that one cannot get online, why support them. To me capitalism should work things out. If LHS have a place, then they will naturally be supported (or come back).

Yes it is sad, but I cannot reason around it. My father (O gauge train collector) says he enjoy's local hobby stores because they can offer advice and help. That may be true, but I find most people in LHS's (save for one back in my hometown) are kids. They know nothing about the specifics. I feel I get better reviews and build logs online.

I am 22, but my cell phone can only make phone calls. I like 50's muscle cars. I read books on history for fun. I don't have a facebook page. I do enjoy brick and mortar stores. I like the old italian guy who gives out tastes of salami.

However, I cannot get over the idea of what seems to me "mercy buying".


Berlin45
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 03:16 PM UTC

Ah! Some kind soul directed me to this thread after I posted the same topic this week.

Very, very sad that Yannis went under- such a nice guy and a survivor from San Antonio. As many others pointed out, that pretty much just leaves D&J (and if you want to count Berkley Hardware, but most don't...) and I have to say that the old D&J is gone for good... it was one of those shops close to my heart as a kid.

In related sad news I went by American Eagles in Seattle just yesterday- after 42 years they're closing up for good as of April 9th (the day of the Seattle IPMS Spring Show). I'm pretty surprised at how long they held on.

Those who are the core of this hobby, who intensely built model kits in the 70s and 80s, are getting a lot older now... and it's becoming more and more of a specialist and collector's market rather than a keen pastime for kids and teenagers...
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 03:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Damon, we'll agree to disagree. I'm in the food marketing business, and while there are niche retailers who do well, eventually most categories succumb to the larger retailers for some specific reasons, including economies of scale. Your post is very passionate, and my heart is with you. But there's a fundamental difference between selling locally-grown food products and models that are the same, whether ordered from Hong Kong or purchased in a bricks & mortar store. Consumers will pay more for "locavore" food choices, but not for a kit they can get for up to half the price on the Internet (and if you buy in bulk, there's no shipping charges).

Like I say, my heart is with you.

But my head says that the LHS doesn't stand a chance long-term.

Some will survive, but overall they are undermined by the manufacturers who sell both to them and to Internet retailers. The latter can undercut them in a variety of ways, and without a conscious decision to spend more per kit (something few people will do), the LHS can't compete with the guy in Oshkosh who has little or no overhead, and who can make profits selling in bulk. As you undoubtedly know, retailers pay interest on the money they borrow to purchase inventory, so the guy who can unload his inventory quicker is going to make more money than the guy who has a stock of un-bought Sd.Kfz.7s he's keeping around in case I walk in and have to have one.

The same thing happened a few years back when I was in hockey equipment testing: the manufacturers couldn't resist selling to Sports Authority, and even though they developed a "cheaper" line for SA, it still killed off local skate shops. The the Internet retailers undercut both of them.

When a business must survive on the kindness of strangers....


The "buy in bulk" part is the key idea here. Larger hobby shops with a wide range of products can still do well. And consumers who don't "buy in bulk" don't qualify for free shipping, so essentially, if a local retailer can sell a product for no more than eight dollars above the Internet retailer's kit price, he is still the cheaper option for the customer. In my market, one hobby shop can actually match most Internet prices, so he is the cheaper choice by far for Dragon, Trumpeter, AFV Club and most European kits (though not Bronco, which are insanely marked up by the US importer compared to Hong Kong retail prices).
didgeboy
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 03:32 PM UTC
Please tell me you are joking??!! I was just at AE in Jan! That guy is great. I love that he has old stuff from the 80's. I went in there at the beginning of Dec and found some CLASSIC stuff. So sad to hear, I am gonna have to plan a trip before he closes. So sad.
What you might call mercy buying is only that if you see it that way. What I miss is being able to go to my "local" and shop for things. D&J USED to have an amazing selection that I could waste hours browsing through. I used to save my lunch money throughout the week and sneak off campus on Fri at lunch to go buy something. The thing I always long for now is having a shop close by that I can go buy paint or glue or an update kit or what ever. Again I think that there are many of us that will miss them when they are gone. Being able to run downtown and get some glue or paint is a great luxury that we are going to lose if we do not support it. Just imagine having to buy your groceries on line.
Jedge3
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Posted: Friday, February 11, 2011 - 04:00 PM UTC
It is really sad that the LHS are going away. I don't have any close to me, the closest is about an hour drive. Some may say that is not too bad for something you want but there is no guarantee that they will have it. So I order online and usually get items before they are released here.

I do agree with some have said that in order to be a successful LHS you need the inventory, the web presence and to offer some great service. LHS should do what the ACO or ACE hardware stores have done. The stores are all individually owned but are part of a larger CO-OP so they can get bulk prices on items. The same could be done with LHS. Order in bulk, maybe cut out distributors that way to save money, pass that saving to customers and LHS stay in business. I know it is a pipe dream but some days that is all you have.
Rouse713
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Posted: Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 04:24 AM UTC
I used to work at an ace. My bosses and managers were all very nice and could help everybody. However, they got rid of a lot of the smart managers and highered a bunch of 15 and 16 year olds, who sucked at helping customers.

I couldn't come up with any reason why people would shop at Ace over other hardwares stores besides location and the ability to individually by hardware (screws, nuts, etc...)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Like I said before, I am not %100 how I feel about this. I still go to the LHS to buy stuff (esp the one in my hometown), though it is ridiculously overpriced. If and when they are gone, I don't know how I will feel.

This is too complicated of an issue to be solved with a single decisive thought.

I look to Lionel trains as an example. Most kids had train sets in the 60's and 70's. The babyboomers were around and airtravel had not dominated the transportation market. It seems like a lot of the stores went away when kids stopped collecting trains.

I have 0 friends that model. A few built 1/2 a model when they were a kid, but hated it. I just don't see many Midwestern American kids building models anymore. I also don't see a huge interest in history among my buddies. If they do have a more worldly view, it is on current affairs. Few have knowledge about WW2 and later wars. I am always surprised for example when watching Inglorious Bastards that they have not even heard of Goebbels or Goring.
bill_c
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 05:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I cannot get over the idea of what seems to me "mercy buying".


In Europe, many countries have laws preventing chain stores from operating at hours that are "unfair" competition to local mom & pop retailers. The good news is: it keeps small stores in business, so you will find them in many neighborhoods where they've gone the way of the Dodo in the US.

The bad news is: prices in Europe for many things are CRAZY!!!! I often cringe when I hear about the cost of some kits here vs. in the UK, for example. When I was in Berlin, I went to the LHS and didn't buy a thing: every kit, book, etc. was 2x what I would pay back here. I won't get into the numbing effect European bureaucracy has on people trying to operate businesses, it's not my country, I don't have a dog in that fight, though I have family over there who complain about the drag all these laws have on capitalism.

The LHS has to do better. There's one store I go to for paint, etc. I took me over 2 years before the owner would even be polite to me. If I bought the wrong bottle of paint and returned it, she'd glare at me for upsetting her inventory. The only thing that's kept me going there is convenience. The only thing that keeps her in business is RC airplanes.
Trisaw
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Posted: Saturday, February 12, 2011 - 06:21 AM UTC
In the case of Yannis, don't you think people here are assuming too much?

After all, we have NO IDEA why he is closing because no one here has posted anything definitive. (And maybe those who know aren't saying). So we're all to assume he's closing due to lack of business? Perhaps he wants to try something new, or as some here have suggested, perhaps he's moving to a new location, or perhaps he decided to go online entirely. Or perhaps he just wants to get a new "life" as a single shop owner is often tied to the store.

I admit I haven't been to his shop in a while. I will say this though. I've seen his shop expand in stock most of the times I went there. He bought some R/C, new huge display cases, new paints, and the newest releases. Last time I was there, he had boxes of kits on the floor still to unpack. He hung items from the ceiling and had a lot of built kits modelers put in his display case. (I do wonder what happened to those built kits since people here were surprised as I am that he closed).

Why would a LHS owner, who is having bad business, order more items for his shop? And if business was indeed bad, being the sole shop owner, how many here who have visited Yannis ever recall him having a sale to boost business?

So his closing may not be a sign that his business had poor business as people here have suggested. For an employee of the former San Antonio Hobby, I would think Yannis knew how to run a business. After all, he did so for so long.
didgeboy
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Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 01:29 PM UTC
Someone in the thread somewhere mentioned a LHS in San Carlos. Does anyone have the name and contact for them? Cheers.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 02:14 PM UTC
Somebody mentioned: "If ONLY there was a hobby shop directory!!!"

There are several. IPMS/USA has had one for years. I believe Kalmbach Publishing (Model Railroader) has one as well. (Train shops mostly, but a LHS is a LHS, right?!?) Also, you can just go on Google and search for [hobby shop] + [town].

KL
warreni
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Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 02:27 PM UTC
The LHS is just the end of a chain with all the middle-men making lots of money from kits they import. There is a certain company in Australia I used to know a lot about and they would regularly make 100% or more profit on a Japanese kits they imported. That left the poor LHS having to charge more and me having to pay even more. Then you would have to wait months, even years, for a new kit to appear in the stores after you had seen it in magazines.

That all changed with the coming of the www, all for the better in my opinion. I still buy paints and the occaisionaly kit from the LHS, but I don't like being ripped off by middle-men and save money by buying from overseas companies.

Sorry but why should I be a sucker and get ripped off by greedy middle-men.
Rouse713
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Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 - 05:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The LHS is just the end of a chain with all the middle-men making lots of money from kits they import. There is a certain company in Australia I used to know a lot about and they would regularly make 100% or more profit on a Japanese kits they imported. That left the poor LHS having to charge more and me having to pay even more. Then you would have to wait months, even years, for a new kit to appear in the stores after you had seen it in magazines.

That all changed with the coming of the www, all for the better in my opinion. I still buy paints and the occaisionaly kit from the LHS, but I don't like being ripped off by middle-men and save money by buying from overseas companies.




It isn't even about the money most of the time. The whole time lag would really upset me.

When I browse my LHS, I am always surprised at what new kits they have. Depending on my mood, I will usually reward LHS's efforts to stock the new kits.
hedorah59
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Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 - 07:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Someone in the thread somewhere mentioned a LHS in San Carlos. Does anyone have the name and contact for them? Cheers.



The only one I can think of is J&M hobby on Laurel Street . I think this is their # (650) 593-5019. Its been awhile since I've been there, don't know how well stocked their model selection is.
didgeboy
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Posted: Thursday, February 24, 2011 - 10:26 AM UTC
Went to J&M in San Carlos this past week and was a bit disappointed by the lack of Armour kits and accessories. They seemed pretty well stocked on cars, trucks and RC, and to their credit a decent amount of ship kits, many from back in the day (I picked up an ARII 1/700 Ticonderoga). I mentioned to one of the older guys that works their that they would do well to add some armour stuff as D&J is just a steaming pile of **** now. Really disappointed by the lack of stock at D&J. Even more disappointed by the disarray of everything in their (looks like someone threw in a grenade just before I got there) and the service was horrible. The owner was too busy jawing with someone about another customer that comes in and buys stuff, returns it so he can buy drugs, meanwhile I am standing there with kits in hand just asking to spend my money with him. He directed me to an isle that was a complete disaster and said he would be over in a minute to help me. 5 minutes later I left. So sad. I do not expect them to last another 6months unless someone from the local IPMS society gets in there and takes over.
On the brighter note Viking Hobby in Sacrament is fantastic. Good stock of old and new, consignment and back issues too. The staff is amazingly friendly and pretty knowledgeable. I will be going back when I am in town.
As for the directory thing, I used to read FSM just for the directory, but what I am talking about is a page here that we can post reviews, as the ones above and maybe pictures and such. Why waste your time driving all the way to some LHS if it is out of business or only stocked with RC and such. A place where armor enthusiasts can support the guys that are still around by directing others to them.
Trisaw
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 12:28 AM UTC
OK, this might be opening a can of worms, but has anyone heard from Yannis and his new clothing business?

I've noticed a few modelers here have not logged in in a few years, so I'm wondering what's happening down there since the entire Bay Area is in a sort of mini-building boom.

Since 2011, D&J has moved to a new and better location and Jacques Littlefield passed away and his 1:1 armor collection is being sold off. There's a new HobbyTown in Sunnyvale.

I think the ACE Hardware hobby shop by UC Berkeley University is going to be torn down and rebuilt as condos, but that was the plan years ago and nothing has happened since.
Hisham
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 12:48 AM UTC
It's always interesting, when someone brings back one of these old threads, to see so many names that we don't see anymore. I always wonder if those people lost interest in the hobby, or just lost interest in participating in online forums?

Hisham
GaryKato
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 01:41 AM UTC
Some of the guys in Silicon Valley Scale Modelers had models on display at Yanni's and didn't get them back. He kept the change in business direction secret saying he was just remodeling.

I haven't heard if there's any good hobby shops in the Bay Area for plastic modelers. I do know that there's a nice hobby shop in Modesto (where San Joaquin Scale Modelers meet). Don't know of any good hobby shops in the Stockton/Lodi area (where I am now).

Update:
This is the place:
Modesto Hobbies and Crafts
401 Bangs Ave. Suite H
Modesto, CA
(209)529-7310

JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 02:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...weren't breaking any sales records but it was a great place to hang out, trade war stories, and buy plastic kits.

My hats off to anyone who runs a LHS!



The LHS I worked at for several years is still going but I think that if not for R/C, it would be gone. Owner is a good guy and he and his family work their fingers to the bone to keep the place a good shop. Up in Fort Wayne Phil's Hobby Shop was a really good place; after I moved away they closed both (?) old sites and consolidated in a new locale closer to the mall. Few times I got in it seemed to be going well. But I recall that in 2009 they said internet sales kept them afloat.

I'd love to run a traditional LHS but I don't see the market locally. Friends ran a LHS 25 years ago and, although they never lost money and always at least broke even, they didn't have the overhead to hire good people to run it when they couldn't be there. They closed the business 15 years ago. Really miss that place.

Farewell Yannis.
Trisaw
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 05:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Some of the guys in Silicon Valley Scale Modelers had models on display at Yanni's and didn't get them back. He kept the change in business direction secret saying he was just remodeling.



I was wondering about that! Yannis had many display cases with modelers' built models in them. I know I didn't get one kitbash back (because I didn't know if and when he was closing), but since I built it from spare parts donated by someone, it cost me nothing. Still, I wished his closing could have been with more advance notice and postings so that I could have made a trip down to collect my built model.

The last time I went, his business was booming as far as I could tell. He had massive amounts of stock and said things were going good. I equated his success because each time I visited, he had more items to sell and I saw his store improve in both stock and furniture. He could get the latest and most popular items fast. I'm really surprised that he closed and I still kind of don't believe his closing was totally related to (low) business revenue (because if business was bad, one wouldn't buy more items). I sure do miss him and his shop.

There are new Gundam stores in San Francisco. Franciscan Hobbies in San Francisco closed in 2015, citing online sales eating their business. Franciscan has been in business for 60+ years. Actually, I think Franciscan sold a lot of kits at an Expo a few years back (I overheard an employee tell a customer this as to why the store was so bare) and in the years after the Expo, they just never really restocked as in days of old, meaning after that Expo, the store had a lot less to sell and quite a few of the shelves were left bare for such a large hobby shop.
SDavies
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 08:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It's always interesting, when someone brings back one of these old threads, to see so many names that we don't see anymore. I always wonder if those people lost interest in the hobby, or just lost interest in participating in online forums?

Hisham



Yes that's the most interesting thing about this thread, the old members who have not posted or visited the forum in years.

As for LHS closing down, it does not bother me as I can buy everything on the internet
rfbaer
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Posted: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 09:27 PM UTC
I buy a lot off the internet, but still like visiting a shop, just to kind of "check in", if you will. Plus it's always enjoyable to poke through the consignment tables and accessory boxes. I have specific interests, but I'm also something of an impulse buyer, and have found myself purchasing things at a shop that I probably wouldn't have bought otherwise.
Shameless plug: If you ever find yourself in Austin Texas, you owe it to yourself to go by King's Hobbies. I have absolutely no affiliation with the business other than always spending money there when we're down from Dallas.
And this whole thread got me to thinking about wandering through San Antonio as a teenager, with a shiny new driver's license, up from Los Gatos on what was to me then a "road trip".
Days gone by.....
PS: Before I forget (a real danger these days) somebody up in the Seattle area, please tell me Skyway (?) Hobbies is still open, please? Emil has some stacks of cool stuff there, sure would hate to see him go away, and his shop still makes Seattle a vacation destination for us.