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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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Turkish modernized Leo 2-NG revealed
CaracalModels
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 04:57 AM UTC
First photos of the indigenous Turkish Leopard 2-NG upgrade have been revealed today. It has the Volkan-2 FCS and SARP unmanned weapons turret designed by the Turkish company ASELSAN, as well as add-on armor that looks pretty different from anything else I've seen. Turkey will be modernizing all of its Leo 2A4's to this configuration.




bison126
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 08:39 AM UTC
It is a cousin of the German Leo2 evolution shown at Eurosatory 2010.

bulivyf
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 08:43 AM UTC
Oh, very interested!!
Miloslav
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 10:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It is a cousin of the German Leo2 evolution shown at Eurosatory 2010.



I don't know the "cousin" part; but the electro-optical systems on the Turkish upgrade are entirely indigenous (Turkish) designs, and so is the unmanned weapons station. I am not sure about the origins of the add-on armor kit, but press releases seem to imply that it is an indigenous design as well. It may look similar to the concept you posted; that does not mean it is somehow related to that concept. Turkish defense industry is certainly capable of designing this upgrade package itself; having upgraded the Leopard 1's with a similar domestic upgrade package.

Here's the promotional video from the Turkish company that designed the upgrade package:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftoVdhSL8cY
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 12:15 PM UTC
Excellent looking piece of kit...hopefully we will see a conversion for the Hobby Boss Leopard 2A4 once it gets into service and more images appear.
junglejim
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 03:46 PM UTC
Getting O/T, but "Shot trap" went out when the kinetic penetrator was fielded. Obsolete term IMO.

Jim
MikeMummey
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Posted: Friday, May 06, 2011 - 07:22 PM UTC
Brian, those two impacts on that T-62 turret are not from fin stabilized tank main gun KE rounds. And even with the latest design of the KE penetrator it will not right itself 90 degrees!
Outta here, Mike sends . . .
junglejim
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Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 05:11 AM UTC
That's all fine and dandy for bare cast or metal plate, but surely you have to take into account modern composites that most (western at least) MBT's use. You sound a lot more...well read than I, but anything I have ever come across suggests that that' why they are able to have such sharp angles. There won't be much deflection as the composites are absorbing the energy. I guess a lucky shot at a turret ring is possible, but pretty unlikely I would think.

Jim
MikeMummey
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Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 06:27 AM UTC
Howdy Brian, I also have a little bit of knowledge with regards to tank/AFV ammo and DU. And the effects of hits on different types of targets, a hobby from a previous life. I will say it again: "The impacts on the T-62 turret in the picture are not from fin stabilized tank main gun ammo". And if you look at the left impact if has encountered the crown of the turret where the right did not. I can post a better picture of the impacts if you like. And getting back on topic; the Leopard pictured does not really have a shot trap. Unless of course we go back to shooting big AP slugs from days of old when dinosaurs ruled the earth.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .
MikeMummey
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Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 07:51 AM UTC
Howdy Brian, I know what M919 is, thank you. The tank pictured used to be located at Ft Irwin,CA. The picture you posted shows it with a selection of typical Warsaw Pact vehicles in an OPFOR equipment display. The vehicle is currently located at 29Palms, CA.



The gouges look to be about an inch wide, at least when I measured them they were. 25 mm =.98 inches or there abouts. The M919 penetrator is smaller in diameter than that. It is also fin stabilized, right? I cannot see any evidence of the fins striking along the projectiles path, even with my X-ray glasses. Even the 1 inch hole produduced in the hatch hinge(circled) showed no signs of fin strike. The strikes and penetrations appear, to my amateur eye anyway to be from M-793 TP-T (Target Practice-Training) aka "Blue Death". And if the tank was in fact struck with DU rounds it would not be on display in a "petting zoo" with soldiers crawling over, on, in and around. It would be off in a fenced off lot like all the other things that get KOed or tainted with DU. The picture you posted does not show hits from DU penetrators, 25mm, tank or otherwise. It just shows a good ol' slug getting enought bite to move turret metal out of the way. You need to post a better picture in order to illustrate your point.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .
MikeMummey
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Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 01:09 PM UTC
Howdy Caracamodels or KA(?), thank you for sharing the images and information on this upgraded Katt. It is neat to see yet another version of the Leopard 2 series.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .
TonyDz
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Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 03:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

And pretty odd that the hatch opens to the rear



What is odd about it? It rotates 360 degrees. You are batting 0 for 2 so far.
MikeMummey
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Posted: Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 07:02 AM UTC
Howdy Brian, when you say "agree to dis-agree" that is another way of you saying "Brian is wrong" but is to stubborn to admit it. So far you just have been regurgitating information from the Global Security and Federation of American Scientists web sites with a little Wikinese thrown in for good measure. And you swing a mighty fine football bat too. So here you have someone whom has been on the actual vehicle to inspect/document the damage and post photos and that is still not good enough for Brian D? FYI the penetration on the hatch hinge is pushed out on the back as it is the exit. The entry is smaller than the penetrator? The fins just fall off? Have you ever been down range? You have asked a few Bradley guys about those hits? Maybe you need to consult a different bunch of "Bradley Guys". No need to respond to this, I will leave you in your ingnoranat bliss. Happy Mothers day. Outta here, Mike sends . . .
Captin_Caveman_III
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Posted: Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 11:52 AM UTC
Hay I like that one man, it reminds me of the 2A4 Evolution Concept. I can't wate to see you work start!


Oh Sorryb guys I didn't reed all the post I just looked at the photos I see it's is the 2A4 Evolution Concept.

Sorry.

I plan on using a Hobby Boss kit for my project build.
TonyDz
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Posted: Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 08:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

when I said agree to disagree, means you're not providing any information that proves I'm wrong or you're right. You're just saying it's so because "you said so".



Really? I would put Mike's resume up against yours any day in the matters being discussed. You are saying so because you have been "told so, or read so". He is telling you because he "did so". I think I would take the word of a Marine who has a few real campaigns under his belt and over 20 some years as a professional tanker, not someone who may have a few model campaigns under his. This is like some high school kid trying to tell Jordan how to play basketball. You are 0 for 3 now.
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