This is my second build log going and so far I am having a good time with this. For those of you that hate this kit, now is the time to turn away and find something else to bag on, as this is going to be finished come hell or high water.
I am simultaneously entering this in the Command Campaign and will be reposting some of these pics and notes there as well, but on a less frequent basis and in less detail.
I have enlisted the help of fellow modelers here about reference for this kit and how to fix it, so thank you to all of you who gave input, it is greatly appreciated. I purchased the July 1991 issues of FSM that had the Cookie Sewell article on how much these kits suck, but how they can easily be improved. I think as someone pointed out, we are modelers not just assemblers. . . .duly noted.
The basic premise is that these kits are flawed out of the gate as the upper hull angles are wrong 68 instead of 71 degrees and such. The suspension is a bit out of whack as well and that is where I will be focusing my efforts. I will NOT be reworking the upper hull as I really just don't care about 3 or 4 degrees. So enough talk, on with the build.

I stated with the kit I bought back in 1999 at Train & Lanes Hobby in Easton, PA when I was back there working on a show (i used to work in film). I bought two copies, as one previous copy had been "lost" when I was in the Army.

Here is the kit brand spanking new.


Upon opening the box, I am greeted with this. . . .


So far I am not a big fan of ESCI's instructions . . .


The first section of the instructions is where we will be concentrating MOST of the scratchbuilding and remodel.


What Cookie says we should be aspiring to. . .


The hull bottom prior to surgery.


Ready to go under the knife(saw).


A close up of what we are trying to do.


The surgery is successful now to see if the patient accepts the "donor" parts


Where I stopped tonight. The new plate in place and glued as well as the axle housings.


So that is it for tonight. I will hopefully be getting time to do regular updates. Note of caution, I am a slow builder and I try to do real time updates or as close as I can get. Also, these are the jokes people. I don't dance. I like to make these a bit fun as it keeps my interest and makes up for my lack of talent. Cheers.

Hi Damon,

Thanks for this. I to have an ESCI LAV (Pirahna) in my stash but I have been reluctant to build it because, 1. It doesn't have instructions, and 2. The bad rap these kits get.

I followed your earlier thread looking for info (and was getting a little frustrated as you were) and was hoping like hell you'd do a build log. I understand your slowness. I am as slow as a one legged turtle so I fully understand. I'll subscribe to this thread so I can see when you've updated.

Thanks again,
John

John;
If you cannot find a copy of the article send me a pm and I am happy to share info with you. While I do not have the LAV 25 instructions, I can help you out with what I do have, just let me know. Thank you for the support. There are many older kits that have been replaced by newer, but I have always enjoyed the challenge of trying to take humble ingredients and make them into something really tasty (I cook too). Cheers.

So is anyone else seeing some of these images as just black, with no image?? What would be causing this?

Pictures look fine to me.

Matt, do you see any of the pictures blacked out? Or all they all G2G? I am seeing many of my pictures across all of my posts as black and some are normal. My Google home page background image is also appearing this way.

Seems the error was a corrupt file on my computer. . . thank you.

Picked up the xacto knife and snippers last night and did some work on this. I am going to say that as much as I appreciate Cookies hard work here, he is not the easiest person to understand when he writes (maybe its just me). It seems that his details, lack details and that his explanations are from the "I am an engineer and you must be too!" camp, that I am not a part of (which is why I switched my major to History in college-I knew better). That being said with a bit of common sense and some dry fitting I think I have figured out where we are going next.
In his description on re working the running gear and suspension he mentions that you need to cut a 10mm x 62mm piece of .080 styrene to place onto the front half of the vehicle where the front tie rods will mount (what's a tie rod?).
What he fails to mention is that you are going to need to place this piece on top of the kit part that goes there per the instructions. Also note that the kit part has pins at either end, but there is only one way it can be mounted correctly. Also, the kit has another pin near the 3 axle housing that will need to be removed and drilled out so that the kit part (18B) can be fitted. After some surgery I was able to fit the part correctly.
The scary thing to me is that once you make a cut, there is no going back. So I am trying to be careful and make sure that only the cuts that are necessary are actually being made.
After the styrene addition was made (I was forced to use two .040 pieces to over come the issue of not having any .080 and no hobby store within 70miles) I dry fitted all of those components and started to realize that I was on the right track, so to speak.
I managed to cut the rest of the suspension bits off and get them cleaned up with little fuss. The tie rods need to be cut to 19mm each, there are two pieces and need to be made into four pieces. This was accomplished easily, but again I was a bit timid as there is no going back once cut. The issue is now figuring out how all of this goes together without incident and without gluing something too soon.
One thing I did notice was a lot of flash on the trees. The mould lines are not too horrible, but some had to be filed down a bit before they looked ok. I have added some pics below so that you all can keep up with the progress, not that it is terribly exciting, but you gotta give them something to look at, right?
I am hopeful that I will get sometime today to get these parts mounted. Cheers.

The parts tree showing the flash




and in close up . . . .


The cut tie rods and wheel mounts




What the set up looks like dry fit, no tie rids.

Hey Didge,

I have alot of left overs from the USMC LAv R kit that might help in your upgrade.

I used the lower hull/ suspesnion, and the recovery crane, but thats pretty much it. maybe the odd piece such as a handle or shackle has been used, but major assemblies such as headlight/mirrors, wheels, cupola, mg, stuff like that, plus the full photo etch and decal sheet. Heres some pics of the leftovers (I'd say 75% of the kit at least) plus, for some reason I had two upper hulls?? There are two of the same sprue in there as one is a spare form an ASLAV kit but its the same sprue and has the missing bits from the other one. rubber tyres are in there etc..

Now after all that, if you want it I will post it at the weekend. Freebie. Be glad to get rid of some of the clutter - And this stuff will just go in the spares box along with all the other LAV left overs otherwise...

Just PM the address.

Adam

Adam you are, as usual, my hero. Yes Please! and Cheers !

Had some time today to get some bits glued and fitted today so am posting the results. Which I confess are no where close to the quality of some hot shot modellers who are much more talented than I and also quite generous (thans Adam). BTW, for those of you that have not seen any of Adams build logs, you should. The quality of workmanship is quite impressive and the detail unmatched.
Enough blathering.
So I managed to get all of the front suspension pieces on today with very little issue. Fit was good for most of these parts even if the overall quality is low. Items to note; the 10mm x 62mm addition that you make should be, I believe, only 57mm long if his pictures are to be believed. A 62mm length brings that piece back onto the rear section and does not fit flush. I might end up trimming mine later, we'll see. The shocks/struts should be mounted BEFORE adding the cut tie rods as they are a bit fiddly if you try to mount them after. The drive housings for the swim propellers need to be cut at the L bend. Favor the side that attached to the propeller mount. The bit that is needed here is a 2mm piece of "scrap" plastic. I just used some rod that was about the same dia. and cut it to size. These will be mounted next go round, as I am waiting for the joints to harden before sanding these, prior to mounting.
So after seeing Adam's ASLAVR tonight, I have serious LAV envy and realize just how crude these kits are. BUT, I am determined to make this one work and make it as nice as my skills allow. While I am not terribly worried about the undercarriage (I do not expect anyone to be looking there) I will be trying to improve the topside, even if it is just with some stowage. We'll see what time and patience allow. All for now. Cheers.

the "swim gear" modified with he new mounting



The 10mm x 62mm piece attached


The mounting for the swim gear


The assembled running gear


here focusing on the tie rod mountings

Haven't had a chance to post in the last few days but have made some progress. I finished off the rear suspension, which was quite easy with only minor fit issues, namely the arms that fit into the notches being a mm or so too short. The struts could be a better fit as well, but if you look at pictures of the actual vehicle they are not mounted up against the hull like the instructions show. I would recommend filling in the holes that result on the hull from the inside or fill them prior to mounting the struts.
The swim gear also requires some research as the kits supplied parts, for lack of a better term, suck. If you follow Cookies instructions, which are a bit vague, you will need to cut a piece of rod or tube of appropriate size (don't ask me I just eyeballed it) at an angle so that the swim gear angles out away from the hull 1mm or so from the bottom and 2mm or more from the top, pictures will show what I mean below.
So, although I had "fixed" the swim gear before, I removed all that nonsense and started over after a trip to Prim Portal (I try to give credit where it is due). As crude as these kits are, and you may not realize it until you look at say a newer Trumpeter version, they can be built up into something usable. As I have mentioned previously I am not a "show" modeller, just a hobbyist.
I am debating whether or not I am going to rework the upper hull or just go for it and add some "other" details. I am hoping to load this bad boy up with gear, BTW I think this is the lazy modellers way of cutting corners (I know that is MY plan!), don't send any hate mail about that, just my opin. I think a lot of missing detail or mistakes can be "fixed" by adding LOTS of stowage, and realistically vehicles in the field are this way (trust me I have some experience here).
So enough babbling and on to the pics. Enjoy, cheers.

All the photos are good to go. I always enjoy watching a good scratchbuild. Working up the balls to do one of my own with an Academy M1A1.

Have been enjoying a full Sunday off with no commitments and was able to get some good building in today. The photos will show the work done today, but there are a few highlights I want to mention. Am going to have the drivers hatch open, no I am not going to spend the time detailing the interior, some other time maybe, but not this one. As a result I needed to build some pieces for the hatch mechanism other wise it just looks poor(er). The antennas are kinda goofy on the kit parts so I modified those. The grab handles also suck so made some from brass rod (thank you Grab Handler). Managed to get the superstructure 90% today and mounted, so that is a bonus. Am hoping that I can get more done this next week and then paint soon. Am going to add some details to the hatch interiors and will add the small details once I am close to painting. No sense in adding those only to have them broken too soon. So here are the photos, enjoy. Cheers,

So my last post was written with some urgency and I was not able to fully "flesh out" my thoughts and build issues in a way that I think is fitting of a good build log. So I thought I would take some time this morning to do just that. While I do not have the instructions in front of me I will make all of my best attempts to remember the part numbers and such. SO, here we go.

As previously mentioned there is a lot of flash on the sprue trees and some of this carries over to the actual pieces. I have found that "most" of it is on the back side of the piece and can easily be trimmed. Mould lines have not been an issue for me on this kit. Part fit is generally good and I have noticed only issues occur when it involves added scratch parts.
The biggest thing I have noticed on this kit is just the lack of good detail and accurate placement of those details that are provided. Example, the fuel filler cap that is on the left side of the vehicle near the rear has no clear placement on the vehicle by some sort of notch, as other items do, nor is it clearly indicated on the instructions. Only after looking at some good reference photos was I able to make a call on where it "should" be. Noting that I am not one to try to take measurements from photos and scale it to 1/35. Oh, well.

The lack of detail means that some of the details supplied in the kit are going to be a "representation" of what it actually is. This could be anywhere from really good (the lifting lugs) to really poor (the antennas) and anywhere in between (the grab handles). I have chosen to rework or remake those details that I am comfortable with and just go with the rest. My decision is simple here, I am not going to be going "all out" on this kit, I just want to get it done and use it as a reference for the next one I have. Sometimes going through the motions can be beneficial in knowing what to do and NOT do next time round.

After looking at photos of "real" vehicles I have noticed that there are several styles of antenna mounts. None of mine are going to be accurate, BUT they will be a close approximation to some. One of the pictures on Prime Portal has an older vehicle with the newer exhaust cover, so time period could be ???
I also have an old Verlinden Modeling Mag that has the LAV C2 in detail and shows the old exhaust cover and a different set of antennas, so there you go.

The instructions for this kit are pretty crude, in my opinion, after having built Tamiya kits for many years (building not finishing). There are MANY items in each step and some sub assemblies are not given enough detail. I have also found that there are many items that are not shown being added or are added with out reference (13D ?) comes to mid the center antenna mount on the superstructure. This is shown added but never identified as to what part it is.

My other issue, and I know this was simply a cost consideration for ESCI, is the "one hull fits all" approach to these kits. The C2 "should" have another place for the extra cupola to be punched out on the upper hull so that a figure could be placed here (can you see why I am not going all out now?). In a future build I might just drill this out and add an interior, who knows.

So, those are the most major issues I have encountered lately. There will be some filling involved once the main construction is complete, but over all part fit is good. I will NOT be using the kit supplied wheels, but rather making up some from resin in the coming weeks. I suspect that the rest of the construction will be complete soon and will go as smoothly as the first parts have (hopefully). I am happy to answer questions for any of you that might have them, not that I am any great sage of information on anything. Feel free to post questions here or PM me. Cheers.

Hi Damon,
I was wondering why you did not corrector improve the angles or the front plates. I think it would make a huge difference. If you don't want to cut, I would laminate with spacers to slighty change the angles. If you don't want to do this, I would recomend that you cut out the front radiator and stick it back level with the one in the back. I still have those pics for you, send me a PM and I'll try to email you them. Since our last communication, I found I had AEF Design LAV 25 interior and LAV - M iterior as well.

Kurt;
I decided not to do the upper hull changes because it was A) more work that I wanted to mess with right now B) Not really that big of a deal to me as 3 or 4 degrees did not seem that significant for this build.
I might in the future do it on the other two ESCI LAV's that I still have (command and TUA) but who knows. Although I have been building since I was a kid, I have never finished an armour kit all the way. I am trying my best to only take on things that I can actually finish right now, build some confidence and start tackling all of those grandiose projects that I envisioned so many years ago. I have always wanted to do an LAV C2 with an interior though and would love to see those interior sets once you have them done. Cheers.

Kurt;
got the pictures, thank you. Was that from the AEF set or was that your own scratch build? Cheers.

Looking good so far.
Got your PM regarding that photo-haven't been on the forum in a few days. Sorry I deleted it but I do that routinely to keep my account managable. PM your email address and I'll send another.

Awesome! I popped in here to see what can be done with this kit, and find it was bought at the hobby shop a mile down the road from me!

Damon.

Damon,
You are very fortunate to still have a resource like Trains and Lanes close to you. Do you ever get up to Red Lancers? Are they still around? I miss having a decent LHS near me. The last great place that I had was in Los Angeles the Black Watch in Northridge area. Joe is one of the old timers and once you get to know him he will do just about anything to help you find what you are looking for. You guys are fortunate to be close to those great shops. Cheers.

No I don't get up to Red Lancers as that's over 2hrs away by drive. I have 2 kids and I just can't spend that amount of time doing that unless there is something for them to do as well. We used to have Rosemont hobbies close by too, and they always had interesting stuff in their window, but I understand they are under new ownership??? At the end of this month, I might have a day where I'm kid-less, so I might drive up there and see what they have. I'm trying not to take on new projects though, until I have what I have done (working on a Dragon ZSU-23-4 now, and just basecoated a Tamiya Flakpanzer Gepard in a custom Gelboliv mix), but you never know, I'll probably be tempted by something...

It's funny though, I go to Tranes n lanes often, and the place is about as disorganized as you could possibly get! So I don't have quite as favorable an opinion (familiarity breeds contempt?), but they discount at 10% so that's a real plus. And the still have a few of the old Esci BMPs sitting around...

Damon.

Those old ESCI BMP's would be great for a OIF or DS dio as a wrecked or destroyed vehicle. Cheers.

Ok, so I got nothing done this weekend, unexpected house guests arrived on Sunday morning and so it goes. My mother is in town this week so I am not expecting to get anything done this week as well, but who knows I might get a little time to squirrel away in the garage, we'll see.
What I do want to mention is that Adam (adamskii) shipped out a box to me all the way from the other end of the world and it arrived last Saturday. Needles to say it was a welcomed gift complete with LOTS of extras. Adam, thank you again (can't say it enough). Sometimes you find that the world is a good place with lots of great people who just enjoy helping out their fellow man. I am humbled by people like that. Those who ask nothing but give just because. One more reason why I really am enjoying this site. Meeting fellow modellers who enjoy the hobby and seeing others enjoy it too. And again I would be remiss if I did not give some props to my buddy Alexi, who is NOT a modeller, but is a fantastic human being and a great handyman, who got my spray booth all tricked out. Cheers mates!
So what is left. Need to get the rear doors on and fill some gaps and then slap this bad boy together and get some paint on it. If there is any progress made I will post it along with pictures. Sorry that this is one of (if not THE most boring build logs, but I promise there will be progress soon.
Cheers to all of you.

Haven't had any time to build recently so all projects have been on hiatus for the past week. Had a few minutes tonight so I was able to putter a bit and got the rear doors on and the upper hull. There is some filling that needs to be done so I think I am going to have a "bonding" party sometime this weekend,he he (these are the jokes people. I don't dance.)The Gaps that have been created in the upper hull/lower hull contact should be easily filled and there are not too many of them. I still need to figure out the one antenna from the middle of the superstructure roof. The kit supplied one is terrible and needs some serious help.I think I am going to replace the kit supplied M60 with a Trumpeter M240, I think. I also realized that I need to move some of the lifting hooks from the rear hull to the rear superstructure as is on the real vehicle. I will be adding the rest of the detail bits once the gaps have been filled as I do not want to risk damaging anything that goes on. So here is what I have done and feel free to ask questions. Cheers.

Quick update. Was able to fill most of those gaps with some Tamiya putty and am hoping that I can sand this weekend. Once that is done I will be adding the details to the back doors and rear of the vehicle. Still need to add the rest of the top details including the center antenna mount once I figure out how to modify it. I am hoping that I can get most of these things done this weekend and then its onto painting. I am hoping to make some casts of the wheels with the hubs and maybe a couple of spares too, in the near future. We'll see. Cheers to anyone still watching.