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For discussions related to WW2 era Soviet armor.
Marking M4A2(76)w Sherman lend-lease?
Holger
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Primorskiy, Russia
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Posted: Sunday, June 19, 2011 - 10:22 PM UTC
Hello!
Please advice from specialists who study the tank Sherman.
The tanks, which were transferred to the Soviet Union, sometimes there is a lot of labels - perhaps technical documentation.
http://model-forum.ucoz.ru/_fr/38/1439075.jpg
Please tell me what could be written on the sides of the tanks?
How it should look like?
It is possible that you can use the products of the firm Archer?
http://www.archertransfers.com/AR35006W.html
I want to build a model of Sherman M4A2 (76) w, but I do not know how to run the board.
I apologize for my English.
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, June 19, 2011 - 11:12 PM UTC
Hi Alexandr

Welcome to Armorama. Ace Decals had released some Lend-Lease markings for various AFVs including the Sherman M4A2 (76)W. But I'm afraid they're out of production Anyway you can see what they looked like here :
http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/48128.aspx

Here's a review on PMMS :
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/ace/ace35001.htm


I'm not sure Archer's D-Day set would be accurate for a Red Army Sherman...But I'm no expert

Frenchy
exer
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Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Sunday, June 19, 2011 - 11:16 PM UTC
Here is my Soviet M4A2

I used these from Archer

Perhaps a mixture ofthe two sets though I think some of it is in cyrillic lettering

If you can wait Dennis Oliver is bringing out a book on Soviet Shermans and Bison are doing accompanying decals including the technical stencils in Cyrillic


Echelon have some cyrillic labels in their lend lease Matilda set but unless you plan to do a Matilda you'll be left with a lot of leftovers
Holger
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 01:46 AM UTC
Thank you, gentlemen!
I was not expecting that answer will be given so quickly!
Pat McGrath You did a great Sherman! And it's very symbolic pedestal!

If I understood correctly - on the sides of the tank should be an inscription in Russian? Please provide a link to Bison decal, otherwise I myself will look for a long time.
I could not find online links to such Bison decals ...
Thank you, you help me alot!
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 03:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Here is my Soviet M4A2

I used these from Archer

Perhaps a mixture ofthe two sets though I think some of it is in cyrillic lettering

If you can wait Dennis Oliver is bringing out a book on Soviet Shermans and Bison are doing accompanying decals including the technical stencils in Cyrillic


Echelon have some cyrillic labels in their lend lease Matilda set but unless you plan to do a Matilda you'll be left with a lot of leftovers



Holger, sorry for the off topic

@Exer. I'm not into Sherman versions. I've noticed that you used the Academy kit for your outstanding build but I've also read that you had to to correct their suspensions

I'd like to know what are the best kits to reproduce a Russian Sherman?

P erhaps does DML make one of them?

many thanks in advance for any reply and sorry again for the off topic


Holger
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 03:26 AM UTC
Hello!
I'll buy a company model Tasca - 35-021 "Assault Tank M4A3E2 Sherman" JUMBO ""
In this set of rollers, which are suitable for Sherman, who passed on in the USSR under the Lend-Lease.

I also buy some of the other sets sprue of firms Tasca, that will collect the most accurate Sherman.
The list of what I buy to make a Sherman in Austria 1945 with an inscription "За Родину" -
35017-E
35017-O
35019-J
35020-HT
You will need to make changes to the slope of armor at the stern and remake of the rink, to make them smooth.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 03:36 AM UTC
Thanks a million Holger

What about this one?



and about these?



exer
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 04:10 AM UTC
Mauro I built the Academy one because I got it cheap and I liked doing the extra work.

Don't buy the Tamiya one because it's the old Italeri kit which does not provide the proper back plate to make an M4A2.
The Tasca M4A2 would need extra sprues from tasca to change it to an M4A2
I plan on another Soviet Sherman and my recommendation is to use the Dragon Kit Red Army Sherman.

Holger the bison decals will be a future release to co incide with the release of the book.

What are you using as the base kit? The Jumbo?



The Tasca Turret is missing the smoke mortar which Soviet M4A2/76s had. The academy kit is missing this as well.




Holger
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 04:22 AM UTC
1) Tasca.
Very good model. I think the best for the construction of any Sherman.
However, in this set is not required for Lend-Lease Sherman rollers.
Although several options could be to build - his photo is in the top positions.
The inscription - "Вперед к победе!"
But most of the Shermans with 76 mm. Cannon was on the rollers with reinforced spokes (sorry, I do not know how to write) - such as "Jumbo".
More precisely - was a mix - disc rollers and rollers with reinforced spokes.
So I have not bought M4A3 (76) w, and bought a "Jumbo". Because of the rollers.
Aft to alter in any way.
Buy sprue
35 017-E
35 017-O
this will facilitate the work.
2) Tamiya.
In fact, it Italeri.
The worst of the reliability of Sherman. Many inaccuracies, you will need a lot of effort to correct them. Scarce attention to detail.
3) Dragon.
Made a very detailed set.
But rollers does not comply with photographs - not seen any photos of Soviet Sherman on rollers with spokes or disk strengthened.
They say there are some uncertainties in the tower T23 - the hatch on the side of the tower is not in place, other small items.

I make a bet on a company Tasca.
I think soon the day when they announced a new set of M4A2 (76) w - they already have all the frames for the gate, you just make the top of the housing.

But I do not want to wait - a little bit of effort and will succeed now!
exer
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 04:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text




I make a bet on a company Tasca.
I think soon the day when they announced a new set of M4A2 (76) w - they already have all the frames for the gate, you just make the top of the housing.

But I do not want to wait - a little bit of effort and will succeed now!



I agree Tasca will eventually release M4A2/76- no reason not to.

Some of the build photos for my model are in this album on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49183020@N08/sets/72157626695843678/
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 04:34 AM UTC
Exer Holger

Thans a lot to both of you for your explanations

I won't do it soon but I think I'll buy the Dragon one and I'll make some modifies following the reference pics.

Cheers
Holger
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 04:36 AM UTC
Pat McGrath
Thanks for the clarification!
And when the book is scheduled for release?
I am pleased to buy it!

From a basic set of Jumbo, I'll just chassis and upper hull.
Everything else is buying separate sprue.

Smoke grenade launcher barrel - is a small nuance!
exer
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 04:47 AM UTC
Sorry Holger I don't think any date has been set for the book release
This is the publisher
http://www.oliverpublishinggroup.com/index.htm
Maeusemelker
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 09:07 AM UTC
Hi Alexandr, the Polish company Armo does some Lend-Lease decals, available here: [urlhttp://www.jadarhobby.pl/armo-c-9_10_23.html[/url] Set 1 has quite a few Sherman markings.
I'm just finishing the Dragon kit
[url=https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/159213&ord=&page=8[/url]
The problems I had with the decals were not due to the quality of the decals but my ignorance.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 09:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Alexandr, the Polish company Armo does some Lend-Lease decals, available here: [urlhttp://www.jadarhobby.pl/armo-c-9_10_23.html[/url] Set 1 has quite a few Sherman markings.
I'm just finishing the Dragon kit
[url=https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/159213&ord=&page=8[/url]
The problems I had with the decals were not due to the quality of the decals but my ignorance.



Today i saw you model on scalemodeller site

Well I found it very nice indeed

Do you advise the dragon kit?
jowady
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2011 - 01:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

e.



Today i saw you model on scalemodeller site

Well I found it very nice indeed

Do you advise the dragon kit?



I used the Dragon kit as it builds up very nicely. The Jumbo (M4A3E2) is really the wrong way to go. Its very expensive to use it just for the lower hull, and there really isn't anything that you can do with the upper hull except make an M4A3E2 as the turret and upper hull are different from every other Sherman. Here's mine, a few years old and its not to the quality of many of the builds made here but it will give you an idea. The build was completely OOB.



Maeusemelker
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 01:03 AM UTC
Hi Alexandr, The Dragon kit is quite nice, but a bit expensive in my opinion. However, there are a few things to watch out for: the instructions are more of a guideline and have quite a few mistakes and can be a bit vague (wrong numbers and parts not mentioned) I can give you a detailed break-down if you want.
There are a couple of things on the kit itself to watch out for: The instructions call for holes to be drilled to fit the pioneer tools, but the guides for the holes in the hull are about 1.4mm, which is way too big (I found this out after I drilled the holes as the locating pins on the tools are no more than 0.5mm big) If I were to do it again, I'd hold the hull up to a light and mark the mounting points on the top of the hull with a pen. Then remove the locating pins from the tools and just glue them to the hull. The headlight and horn guards are very chunky and need to be slimmed down (very carefully, as they are quite fragile) - there are PE replacements provided, but I consider them to be too flimsy and they will be very difficult to attach securely (most likely you would also have to fill the locating holes on the hull, which are intended for the plastic parts)
The plastic barrel is too short (by about 4mm) and the metal barrel is too long by about the same amount - you can correct this by drilling a 4mm deep hole, 2.5mm diameter into the muzzle-brake and then taking off 0.5mm from the thickness of the end of the barrel with a file.
If you want to get really picky, there are also sink-holes in the bottom of the suspension units (but they'll be virtually invisible on the completed model) and some surprisingly large casting seams that need sanding.
On the plus-side, the details are very crisp and really nice-looking - but there is a price to pay: the attachment points to the sprues can be very large (and there's lots of them) and some of them run into the mating surfaces, so will require careful clean-up.
If you are prepared to do a bit of work, and if you can get the kit for less than RRP this kit will make an excellent model.
Hope this helps.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 08:16 AM UTC
Many thanks for the advices DIERK

What about the tracks? Are they individual?
jowady
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 09:36 AM UTC
The kit comes with vinyl T-49 track. IIRC it also comes with link by link (I don't remember which one but I'm pretty sure it wasn't T-49.)
exer
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 09:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The kit comes with vinyl T-49 track. IIRC it also comes with link by link (I don't remember which one but I'm pretty sure it wasn't T-49.)



No link by link in the two kits I have.

there's a review of the kit on PMMS
jowady
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 02:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The kit comes with vinyl T-49 track. IIRC it also comes with link by link (I don't remember which one but I'm pretty sure it wasn't T-49.)



No link by link in the two kits I have.

there's a review of the kit on PMMS



You are probably right then, I bought the kit right after it came out and in a remarkably uncharacteristic move, built it almost immediately. I know that I had it a couple of years or so before my dad passed (sent him photos, he had just finished reading "Commanding the Red Army's Shermans" so it could be 5 or 6 years ago. I have to admit that I don't bother with Dragon's link by link anyway.
Spiderfrommars
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 04:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The kit comes with vinyl T-49 track. IIRC it also comes with link by link (I don't remember which one but I'm pretty sure it wasn't T-49.)



No link by link in the two kits I have.

there's a review of the kit on PMMS




Quite a pity!
js2mtank
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 10:44 PM UTC
there is no difference between italeri's m4a2 and m4a3,except the decal. dragon's red army sherman is also confusing.
exer
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 11:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

there is no difference between italeri's m4a2 and m4a3,except the decal. dragon's red army sherman is also confusing.



Yes there is. Italeri provide the engine deck for the M4A2 but not the rear lower hull and exhaust.

What confuses you about the Dragon kit?
Maeusemelker
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Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 11:39 PM UTC
Hi Mauro,
As the others have already pointed out, the kit provides only vinyl tracks - but they're not bad.
The thing I forgot to mention earlier is that the welds on the hull need to be raised so that they are either level with the hull plates or even slightly raised.
Dierk
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