Hi folks,

All these new artillery announcments have been most interesting, after years of waiting a new 25pdr finally comes along and like buses comes in twos .

The Bronco 25pdr looks terrific and it will be interesting to see the DML kit too.

About 5 years ago or more I built a couple of FATs. They were not terrific builds and I finally got around to addiding the mirrors and some holding straps about 6 weeks ago.





I never got around to building the gun and limber as I really wanted an early version to fit the time frame of the vehciles, that and the fright of seeing the Eduward PE set meant that the it has languished in the box since then. The prospect of the new Bronco 25pdr that offers the early version is great but I then got to thinking what to do with the old kit. Do I throw it in the bin, build it OOB or try and tart it up a bit with the PE set and finish it as a NWE piece?







I recently reviewed the new 25pdr crew from Resicast and wanted a change from vehicles for a few days so decided to paint them up.



The figuers come with a nice set of early helmets but I wanted a later crew so I've swapped out the heads for scrim net and camo and have been working at them for a couple of days.





If I can make a reasonable job of the 25pdr it would give them a home so rather than waste the kit I'll give it a go. I've done the crew as men from 151st (Ayrshire Yeomanry) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery, 11th Armoured Division June 1944. Bit more work to do, but a very ncie set to work with.

Anyone built the Tamiya kit and used the PE set? I'd be interest in your thoughts.

Cheers

Al

Haven't built this Alan though it's in the stash. My concern would be that the PE gun shield would be too thin even for 1/35

Hi Pat,

I built one 20 odd years ago, but I don't have the kit now. I'd agree the shield looks too thin and most likely would bend too easily.

Probably a pick and choose option as with most PE.

Thanks for the thoughs.

Al

OK, where are you hiding??? I don't believe some of you haven't built this one, must be some hipts, tip worth a mention?

Al

Alan I will measure the thickness of the gunshield and that will give you some idea of how thick the shield should be in scale.

I recently bought the Tamiya Ford Fat and 25pdr combo. I also have the Eduard set for the FAT and had been poking around a bit for the 25pdr Eduard set. Anyway, these two are next up in the queue (I'm just finishing the resin bumpers on the HobbyBoss LWS and will start the Quad when I begin painting the LWS). Your build couldn't be much better timed for me.

I intend to do my FAT/25pdr as North Africa early 1941'ish (I really want to paint the Caunter scheme). I hadn't realized that there might be issues with the 25pdr and limber for this timeframe. I don't want to highjack your thread, but would be curious about a pointer to a source that might shed some light on this point. Since I'm desperate to do the Caunter, I will probably press-on with what I have at hand, but am always eager to learn something more.

Edit: Opps... Some great info right here at Armorama:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/59331

Good luck with your build. I'll be watching intently.


Dave

Hi Dave,

This is a walkabout I took at IWM London of the early 25pdr, the type I'd like to add to the FATs. No eduward PE for me when I built those two.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/3250

On the Tamiya kit I believe the muzzle Break and Counter Weight are only suitable for a gun produced late 1943 so they should suit me OK.

From what I can tell the Gun Saddle is the No 4 Gun saddle so I presume that is also OK for a 1934/44 gun. The rest will be adding some additional detail where I can.

Dave a good cheap publication on the gun is the Military Vehicles Workshop Series ARTY-03 25-Pounder Field Gun and Limber. ISBN 978-1-84768-997-9. Costs about £3.00 and has detailed drawings of all the parts.

Cheers

Al

Thanks Darren.

Al

I did see that I would need to remove the counter weight. I just peeked inside the box and it looks like the plastic has enough thickness that I'll be able to remove this.




Thank you for the pointer to an inexpensive reference. I just ordered a copy (should arrive before I am really ready to begin on the gun). Again, I look forward to watching your work progress.


Dave

Hi Dave,

Enjoy the publication and the build,

Al

Alan the gunners seat is just a round piece of wood on a metal pole which allows some height adjustment.

Hi Darren,

Yip, I know that. The Gun Saddel is the bit the gun sits on, there were different styles used at different periods of manufacture, at least 3 I know of. I'll have to speak to the CSgt about your technical knowledge, I see a few extra swabbing prades might be necessary .

Easy to confuse though, I only know that becasue the parts are clearly marked in the technical manual.

Al

We just refer to the plates as gun plates and we have three styles that I am aware of with the only major difference being the one on the Mk 3 which is smaller as the axle and gun shield on the Mk 3 is slimmer/shorter. But what the hell I have been wrong before, and the usual shout is get that FFing in here NOW.

Hi Darren,

if you haven't go the publication I mentioned above it's well worht the £3.00 Got mine from;

http://www.barbarossabooks.eu/

No connection to seller.

They show the No 2, No 3 and No 4 Gun Saddle. Wounder what happened to No 1 ? Mainly drawings of the infomration about the early gun, trailer and examples of the markings on the ammo.

Cheers

Al

PS: I see Tamiya are re-releasing their 1976 kit of the gun and crew! Unless it's going to be at a cheap price why bother with 2 new guns on the way??

Might be the only place? (At least that's all that I was able to turn-up via the Googles.) Since I elected for surface delivery to the US, I may not see my copy for many weeks (sigh).

Anyway, I find this whole saddle/carriage/gun issue a bit tough to sort out via the Wikipedia page on the 25 pounder field gun. (Seems like the saddle is a component of the carriage, and the gun gets a separate designation?) That both the gun and carraige have designations like Mark I, Mark II, etc. makes the waters a bit murky... In fact, I'm still not sure what Mark gun/carriage is depicted by the Tamiya kit, so I hope that the Military Vehicles Workshop Series helps me sort this out. (Maybe I should just go back to trying to keep track of US Marine Sherman variants, by campaign. )


Dave

Hi Dave,

Derek Barton is my source for all things artillery . I asked Derek about the 25pdr back in 2008 and this is what he said.

"Al, the 25 pdr came in 2 Marks with 3 sub Marks as follows:

Mk I - Commonly known as the 18/25 pdr (there were different version of this with different trails)
Mk II/1 - the standard version
Mk II/2 - the short axle version developed for jungle use with narrow shield and smaller platform
MkII/3 - as the MkII/2 but with a hinged trail for high angle fire"

So the Tamiya kit is the standard version the MkII/I.

Here is a link to Derek's site, which is terrific for figuering out RA marking and units/equipment. Be warned things can get complicated

http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Made a start this evening on the gun barel, breach and cleaning up some parts.

I confess I have built the Tamiya 25 pounder - alas it was in about 1984 when I was 12!

Still, always nice to see blasts from the past, if I close my eyes I can smell the Tamiya paint!

Hi Neil.

Thanks for replying anyway.

Well it never rains but it pours. Having spent yesterday evening making sure I had a nice straight barrel, drilling out the muzzel break, fixing the breach blcok and making sure all was well, when I came home today I noticed a slight sink in the barrell. The melting plastic syndrome I've seen this a few times on the Italeri Chevrolet 15 cwt rear axel, but the net result is below.





So I'll need to make a new barrel from plastic rod.



Dave or Darren would you do me a favour and just check the length of the barrel to where the muzzle break fits. I think it's 27mm but I didn't write it down and can't remember

Well that slight disaster aside, I did a bit of work on the kit as well. The two spiked rods on the RHS of the carriage come moulded to the kit. There are replacement PE brackets and you are advised to make new rods etc. However I had a go at cleaning them up and removing the excess palstic and they have turned out a bit more 3D. I did the same with the locking plates, again you get PE replacements in the eduard set but I just thinned these down with a file.





If I'm not happy with them I can always add the PE parts.

The next thing I'll look at is the firing platform. The picket plates on the kit are pretty naff so I'll most likely replace these with the PE parts.

Al

Alan the Mk3 is the exact same gun assembly with no changes at all. The carraige on the other hand is very differant. The trail splits about 1/4 of the way down, and is hinged to fold up on itself. The axle is considerably shorter, with the gun shield width reduced to match the axle length. I believe but have not checked if the carraige itself is slimmer. The purpose of this was to operate as a form of Howitzer and so yes a higher angle of attack. One of the guys I work with on the guns (Barry) worked on them all his working life and is a never ending source of information and stories on the 25pdr, and he is really the man I need to check with for all the changes.

Hi Darren,

It's the standard Mk II with the muzzel break that I'm building., so I don't think there is much to alter, just detail up where I can.

Al

Hi flks,

Here's the replacement barrel with a new locking ring. Just need to confirn if it's 27 or 29mm to the muzzel break. I was too p---ed off at the thing melting to note my measurement down





The gun slide is not a great fit of parts despite a clot of clenaing up so I'll have to millliput in the gaps.



Al

My eyes aren't what they used to be and I don't have calipers, but donning the uber dork optivisor and being as careful as I could be with a plastic rule I make the barrel length to be 27.5mm.

Anyway, sorry to see the melting... Did you spill something? Still, a graceful recovery. Seems like things arenow back on track.


Dave

Hi Dave,

Thanks for that. No, a reaction to the glue, I've seen the same happen with the rear axel of the Italeri 15cwt truck - rather than cement the parts the opposite happens, it softens them up, don't know the reason.

Al

27.88mm