_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Tiger II - Turret 133 - 1/s.Pz.Abt. 503
BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 07:03 AM UTC
I've been a slug the past couple weeks, but Dave DaSilva's excellent Sherman build log has gotten me moving again:

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/183032

I like how he used the hairspray method to show the tools painted in olive drab with the underlying metal and wood showing through. I thought this method would work well on my Tiger II where the tools, tow cables, etc. *might* have been on the vehicle when it was painted at the factory. I experimented on the tow clevises (sp?) and I'm generally happy with how they turned out. The camera reveals every little mistake, but they look good to the naked eye. I went ahead and painted the tools and plan to use same approach once they're dry. Where the green camouflage is involved (e.g. the head of the shovel) I'll have to use the hairspray method twice in order to show the remnants of the green paint on top of the remains of the dark yellow.





I'm making this up as I go, so please chime in if I'm going off course.
BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 26, 2011 - 10:44 AM UTC
Hi everyone - I'm still creeping along with this build and have just finished the tracks. I normally use Blacken-It with Friuls, but in the past I haven't been able to get a really dark coloration even when I've left them in the solution for a long time. So to change things up, I washed the tracks in soapy water first and then rinsed them in vinegar (which I've heard helps). Once dry, I soaked them for 15 minutes in Blacken-It and used a stiff brush to scrub the solution into all the crevices. They still weren't that dark and had plenty of bare metal showing, which makes me wonder whether Blacken-It has a limited shelf life? Anyway, once they were dry I applied MIG dark and brown washes, my own brown washes, and MIG pigments (mostly rubble dust). I finished them off by using steel wool and a steel file to bring out the metal highlights.





The other reason for my slow progress is it's taken me a while to figure out how to paint the tools, cables, and small items. I'm not sure yet how much general chipping I want to show on a 3-month old tank, but I thought it reasonable to assume that the tools, clevises, cables, and other frequently used items would show plenty of chipping due to constant use. So I used the hairspray method to try to show the chipped paint and metal/wood underneath. I didn't get precisely the effect I wanted, but the results have persuaded me to keep experimenting with this technique.

One question: Should the section of three "pipe cleaners" on either side of the hull be chipped as well? Would they have been wood or metal?







Thanks for following along. All comments are welcome.
jrutman
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 03:23 AM UTC
Looking good Bill,
J
Braille
#135
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: August 05, 2007
KitMaker: 1,501 posts
Armorama: 1,485 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 02:41 AM UTC
@BillGrom - Bill,

The three pipes that you are referring to are the gun cleaning rods and these would have been made of wood at this time in the Tiger II's history. Normally these were not on the vehicle when the base coat of paint was applied at the factory but I've seen photographs with them lightly over-sprayed by the field applied camouflage as this was usually done by the crews. And depending on the crews these were also removed before applying the camouflage.

BTW your weathering of the clevis hooks look realistic - good job!

I will be posting a few links here concerning this topic for you and anyone else interested as soon as I get home tonight!

Hope this helps,
~ Eddy
BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 05:49 AM UTC
Hi Eddy - Thanks for the clarification. I'll go back and paint the cleaning rods in a wood tone, which will have the side benefit of adding color to the model. Since I can't tell from the photos, I simply assumed the crew sprayed the camo over everything. However, as Mike pointed out in an earlier post the cleaning rods might have been spared in order to avoid getting paint in the barrel. So it seems reasonable to assume the crew took care to remove them first.


Quoted Text

BTW your weathering of the clevis hooks look realistic - good job!



I did the hooks first and ironically I think they came out the best. One thing I would caution others about is using a paintbrush to apply the hairspray. I went this route because it was easier and faster than airbrushing it on. Unfortunately, the brush strokes lifted the underlying (Tamiya) paint, which had had at least a day to dry. Totally didn't expect this ... in the future I'll give the paint more time to dry and use my airbrush.
Braille
#135
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: August 05, 2007
KitMaker: 1,501 posts
Armorama: 1,485 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 08:29 PM UTC
@BillGorm – Bill,

First, sorry for posting this so late this evening but had some unexpected things get in the way, as usual!

Anyhow, I can’t see any of the photographs at work due to the firewall so I couldn’t comment on the tracks – but now that I'm here at home, they look excellent and ready for some weathering. Your method is exactly the same method I use for getting these tracks to look somewhat aged. To get them to come out darker using the Blacken-it solution I first leave the metal tracks soaking in vinegar overnight in a plastic container (cleaned out cottage cheese container). After which I dunk them in a light solution of baking soda and then rinse them with warm water followed by a blow dry. That will usually get them to come out darker. To get them even darker you will have to soak them in a second solution of Blacken-it. I only darken the tracks if I want to depict a less worn or weathered vehicle.

As your tracks sit I give them a diluted wash of oil paint (90% Oderless Turpenoid to 10% oil paint) – mixing browns with black to both sides of the track faces. You could then follow this with varying shades of light to dark browns randomly washing every other link on the road wheel side of the tracks. After allowing them to dry overnight you could go over them one more time but only on every other third or forth link. Depending on how much contrast you want you could also increase the percentage of oil paint to Turpenoid. I then go over this with a single wash of Rustall – German tracks don’t show hardly any rust if any at all so this is just to give them some oxidation before the pigments are applied.

Bill, here is a link that you may find of interest for the over painting of tools with another link on that same post with more information. And more over painting of tools. Some of the photographs are missing but I think you and others here interested will understand what’s being conveyed. And something new to use as a substitute for the hairspray on future builds that you may also fine of interest, I did!

Hope this is of some use and help for you,
~ Eddy
BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 06:39 AM UTC
I'm glad the site is back up ... I was starting to show withdrawal symptoms.

After staring at my Tiger II for a while I mustered the courage to try chipping it. On the one hand the vehicle was only 3-4 months old when it was destroyed, so I didn't think tons of chips made sense. On the other hand, the only way to improve is to practice. Hopefully, I've struck a happy medium here, but please add your two cents. Chipping is the one aspect of weathering that gives me hives but like PE I'm determined to keep at it.











Next up will be weathering the lower hull and suspension and fitting the road wheels and sprockets. After that I'm going to use Mike Rinaldi's article on Oil Paint Rendering to try and add life to the zimmerit and upper surfaces. If you're interested in the article, you can find it here:

[url=http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/articles_other.htm[/url]

Thanks for watching.


Big-John
Visit this Community
Ohio, United States
Joined: August 12, 2010
KitMaker: 731 posts
Armorama: 711 posts
Posted: Monday, December 05, 2011 - 07:16 AM UTC
Hi Bill,

I think your chipping looks very good, and just the right amount for a vehicle that has only been in the feild for a short time.
BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2011 - 02:06 PM UTC
No, I didn't die trying to complete this model. I've just been busy with work and family ... and trying to move my waistline up toward my chest where it used to be. I'll post some progress photos shortly for anyone still interested, but a few questions about referencing a source in the meantime:

I plan to mount the model on a simple wood base with a nameplate. The story of the vehicle's demise is recounted in a book by Eric Hunt that includes a great quote from a British soldier who witnessed the tank's destruction first hand. I'd like to include his words on the nameplate. Would it be acceptable to reproduce a paragraph-size chunk of text this way? At what point do I need to attribute the text to the book/author (i.e. include that information on the nameplate)?

BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 09:00 AM UTC
OK, as promised here are some progress photos. I've weathered the lower hull and suspension and added the tracks (which give the model real heft). Next up will be my attempt at Mike Rinaldi's Oil Paint Rendering technique.











Lots of weathering to go still, but all comments welcome!
BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 - 10:47 AM UTC
Just wanted to post some photos of my completed Tiger II. I appreciate everyone's support along the way. In particular, I'd like to thank Eddy Nevarez (aka Braille), who helped on all fronts - researching the fate of turret 133, answering technical questions about the Tiger II, and providing general construction tips. Thanks, pal!

So here are the photos. Please comment if something strikes you (good or bad). I'd particularly like to hear from folks who don't like the model or see clear areas where I could improve. In the meantime, I'm going to get cracking on something with fewer road wheels.

















sternumking
Visit this Community
Nebraska, United States
Joined: December 29, 2009
KitMaker: 7 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 - 11:39 AM UTC
I just started on this kit so I will be going back to this build for help
GewoonWouter
Visit this Community
Antwerpen, Belgium
Joined: March 31, 2010
KitMaker: 227 posts
Armorama: 123 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 09:49 AM UTC
Hi Bill: congrats with your finished build! She's become a real beauty I'd say, well done!!!!

Cheers
BillGorm
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 02, 2009
KitMaker: 609 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 02:16 PM UTC
John - I think you'll really enjoy the kit. Essentially accurate straight out of the box, well engineered, and with lots of options. Good luck with it.

Wouter - Thank you! It took a lot longer than I had hoped and I think I temporarily burned myself out on armor. Maybe that's the biggest lesson ... don't get so wrapped up in things that you no longer enjoy what you're doing.

GewoonWouter
Visit this Community
Antwerpen, Belgium
Joined: March 31, 2010
KitMaker: 227 posts
Armorama: 123 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 06:55 PM UTC
I think your build was quite fast to my standards though, usually mine take a year or more to complete ...my initial Tiger II build has been stalled since september last year

Anyway, hope you find your mojo back soon

Cheers
Braille
#135
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: August 05, 2007
KitMaker: 1,501 posts
Armorama: 1,485 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 04:06 PM UTC
@BillGorm – Bill,

Yes, your build took a while to complete but good things take time and your efforts, over this time, have paid off. You have to remember that you tried out new techniques, methods and products during your build and all of this takes time to learn and with practice master. The best part of your build for me is your take on the camouflage scheme; it has to be one of the first best efforts to depict 503’s 1st company that I’ve seen to date. Great job all the way around!

Thank you for the mention Bill, it is much appreciated, it was and will always be my pleasure to help you. I have saved your build log for future reference and inspiration as I plan on adding the same vehicle to my Kingtiger collection and will use your log to build my own. Thanks for posting and sharing your build with all of us, hoping to see more of your work here . . . soon!

~ Eddy
 _GOTOTOP