I'm not asking for anything free, and if it's too much trouble for you post some pics, then OK.

However, at least four posters (including youself) in this thread have characterized the wearing of US WWII gaitors in VN as "common," and a couple of those posters have also said that there are lots of photos that show this.

All I've said is that if it was a commn practice, then there should be no problem finding photos of it. A single photo of one individual does not convice me that the practice was "common." This is like saying that a photograph of Montgomery wearing more than one regimental badge on his beret is evidence that wearing multiple badges on black RAC berets was a "common" practice throughout the 8th Army. The fact that it happened is "unquestionable," but that doesn't make it "common."

In the absence of additional evidence, I remain unconvinced.

That's all I'm saying, no more - no less.

A quick Google image search, plus another look at the mp.net site, and I found at least two and possibly four more pics of guys wearing leggings....at work I cannot access my flickr account to be able to post the images here, so I will email them to myself at home and post them up here in this thread later this evening.

If I post pics right:

1. 2nd guy from left (203 gunner)


US%2520SOG%2520RT%2520Team%2520Laos%25201970%2520001

2. Pretty obvious here:


J%2520Newman%252011

3. Closest guy to the camera all geared up MIGHT have them:


J%2520Newman%252010

4. Again, a maybe...pic isn't terribly clear but from the way his pants billow out just above his knees, he might:


J%2520Newman%25201

At the very least, these first two pics plus the one posted by another member earlier show that these leggings were more common than the Kugelblitz, Maus, and an assortment of other kits that have been made and built by many modelers. Yea, Masterbox! And keep in mind I found these pics in the space of about 15 min on the net, and haven't even checked back at my Plaster or Greco books, which I've not looked at in some time. So while the word "common" may not be totally accurate, they were certainly used to some degree, enough, IMO, to be featured in a kit (as they were in Dragon's own MACVSOG kit).

Rob

I have three more photos, just can't figure out how to post with my reply. I managed to load them in the Gallery under Workbench Models( my bad)

Walley54

Can't be certain Walley, and it would hurt my "cause" if I am right, but I think those are reenactor photos that have been made to look "old". Their uniforms have nice creases and such in them, and the quality of the photos seems a little too good, despite the B&W. Maybe. Not positive though. In my google search earlier today I found a website of a group that does MACVSOG impressions...they had photos of real teams they base their "look" off of, then also photos of themselves. These might be those same, or similar, guys. maybe.

Hi Rob,

I agree the one photo marked April might be reenactors, but the other two RT photos very well maybe In-Country photos. I know the site you are refering too, and these did not come off that one. Then again i do not need to be convinced of the use of the gaiters, i have the books you refer to, plus others that show guys wearing them. I do not believe any one said they were widely used through out Vietnam, or by other units other than the SOG guys.As far as I am concerned if they were used by the teams of CCN, then that is common use by MACV/SOG members.
Walley

put bold text here

Common or not, they are still a nice set of figures, which means I'll still get a set or two. Anyone not happy with the gattors can change them out right.

I've seen so many pictures of special forces of all kinds from NAM and I am never surprised at what I see. They wore many different things. As they do now. I have even seen pix of them in full WWII Marine issue camo. Not to mention many types of tiger stripe. The strangest weapon I saw was an Aussie FN FAL with a shortened barrel and an early model 40mm GL hung underneath with a 30 round BREN mag.

I think it's cool to use a little artistic license, a little. But with Vietnam era special operation forces, hey they used everything. They would many times take different weapons on different missions. It depended on what they needed. And they got pretty much whatever they asked for. Even some of those Vz.58s I think they called them, they were very different then the AK47. I have seen both Viet cong and SF using one.

As for the leggings as they were called in WWII as far as I know by Army personnel(That's what my dad called them), I have read they were good for keep the creepy crawlies out of your boots in certain areas. I have seen many pictures of US SF personnel wearing them. So I guess one could wear different uniforms and weapon loads being mission dependent.

I would use a Swedish K instead of the M3. They didn't like the M3 nor the M16 unless it had the early 40mm GL, later they used the M203. They liked the short barrel weapons even cutting up an M60. Mostly short range engagements unless snipers. Many used the Stoner weapons. A few even had HK stuff.

And that's what is so great about Nam modeling!!! Almost anything goes.

Throwing a smoke grenade at the enemy is weird, unless it was WP. He would be on the side or in front throwing it to mark a landing zone. I guess he could throw it to mark were the gunships or fast movers would fire at for support, but that would be too close to them(how far could he throw it?). I could see throwing a grenade with his right hand and firing with his off hand but not the other way around. If he was using his off hand for a smoke grenade he probably would be tossing it underhand to use it to cover their movement.

When is the other figure kit going to hit the USA, I can't seem to find one.

Wow. I can't believe all the discussion about the one figure wearing leggings. A figure with leggings was included in the kit because there was some photographic evidence and some written evidence that it did occur and it was meant to show that there was that particular variation in uniform wear by some members of CCN. This was meant to make the kit a bit more interesting. As most of us who are familiar with MasterBox know, the company is known for its sometimes unique subject matter/story line incorporated into their kits. If a modeler doesn't want to have the figures represent a CCN SOG Team, then the feet can be cut off at jungle boot height and replaced with a pair of jungle boots and putty can be used to fix the trousers as they meet up to the boots.

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone mention the use of tiger stripes by the entire team when most SOG teams wore sterile jungle fatigues, some with modifications such as the lower pockets being mounted on the sleeves, or parts of enemy uniforms instead of tiger stripes or ERDL. This is a model kit that will be reasonable priced and has the option of representing a SOG team, LRRPS, Rangers or SF dressed in tiger stripe uniforms, so I really don't see much of an issue with the kit. When I get mine, I plan on using a Swedish K in place of the M3 Greasegun and using a Type 56 version of the AK rather than the version shown in the pictures. I'll probably also alter the poses a tad. The kit is a good starting point to let a modeler's creativity take hold and make a good diorama out of the figures of the kit.

Good to see you here, Walley. A PM is on the way.

Cheers,
James

Hi James, Sent a PM back at you.
Walley

Looks like a must have for any Vietnam enthusiast. May have to change the dio I was planning to incorporate these figures.
Waiting for that PM Mr Rae
Matt Nethery

Well, that works for me. The last photos posted (even with the couple of questionable ones) is enough to prove the point even to a skeptic like me.

Not the first time I've ever been wrong and sure not to be the last.

Thanks for the lively discussion and the effort to find and post the photos.

To be pedantic, what you would have seen is an Aussie L1A1 SLR or quite possibly an L2A1 (not an FAL which the Aussies didn't use) with a shortened barrel and an ealry model 40mm GL hung underneath with a 30 round L2A1 (not BREN) mag.

While the L4 LMG mag could be used on an SLR, it's weaker spring didn't work properly without modification. However the heavy barrel L2A1 version of the SLR had a proper 30 round mag, and was fully automatic and it's likely that was the weapon (certainly at least the mag) that you saw.

You're probably right, I wasn't going to be that specific without having the picture in front of me so I can research it. I used generic versions of the weapons. Not everybody knows the specific nomenclature of every weapon, I pretty much do but have to do a little research to get it right. Rather then come off as a know it all I just used what I could to get my point across.

As I said there was everything there, all types of weapons from everywhere. So it very well could have been a Belgium FN FAL HB of some kind. It could have been an Israeli version for all I know.

Yes I even know about the trigger on those early 40mm GLs and how it was disliked. Many were discarded and given to REMF troops. I saw Air force personnel using them, they said in the captions that they traded to get them and modified the triggers to work better. I don't have that picture either and am going by memory.