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Mastebox: Back to The 'Nam W.i.P.
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 01:24 AM UTC
Recently, we did a News Feature on the first of Masterbox's Vietnam figure sets in 1/35th. Now, the company have sent us images of another Work-in-Progress on a similar theme - the Vietnam War.



Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!

dobon68
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 02:07 AM UTC
This looks like it will make a great set and as with a lot of the Masterbox figure sets an instant diorama which you could do with or without the Huey in it?
As for comments about the figures I'm assuming they represent a LRRP team or similar, taking into account the varied weapons, bonnie hats and Vietnamese member. If this is the case then one of the figures should be carrying a PRC-25 radio. Also although I like the Vietnamese figure the pose is a bit weak in as far as if he is throwing a grenade then it doesn't look as if it will go far at all, a bit of a girly throwing action!
Well done Masterbox and keep them coming.
Regards
David
gatorbait
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Louisiana, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 02:17 AM UTC
What a wonderful addition! You can almost hear the Black Cat rotors getting closers.. Animation is terrific, boonie hats nicely done. I like the Kit Carson scout;he adds that extra touch to the SOG team.

Once again,Masterbox does something unique and very welcome
dropshot
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 03:00 AM UTC
Here am I bogged down with painting DPM rucksacks to finish my SAS Landrover ,cursing camouflge patterns & the mothers of those that designed them. I was thinking that I never want to see another camouflage pattern ,until these came along . Maybe I will have time to recover before they are available. Tigerstripe oooohh yehhh !
ReconTL3-1
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 03:20 AM UTC
I think this is a pretty good kit. There are a few things I would change and update when I build it once it is released to have the figures represent some actual individuals, but the concept of the kit and the interaction between the figures is quite good. MasterBox really does try to create kits that are interesting and can stand alone in their own diorama setting. Being that I am a modeler of Vietnam subjects, this kit will be a fine addition to my collection of kits and will also fit well in an idea I have for a future diorama (hence the comment about updating the figures to represent particular individuals). Keep in mind that these photos are of their concept, so not all of the equipment is on the figures. A radio could definately be added to one of the Soldier's load when the kit is released.
Hopefully there will be many more MasterBox kits with Vietnam Themes.
Cheers!
James
bill_c
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MODEL SHIPWRIGHTS
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 03:29 AM UTC
Outstanding. Simply a stunner of a set. A dio in a box, really.
Maki
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ARMORAMA
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Croatia Hrvatska
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 03:38 AM UTC
Very nice. I agree, Masterbox has good conceptual ideas and their figures are always telling an interesting story... Well done!

Mario
SdAufKla
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 03:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

... If this is the case then one of the figures should be carrying a PRC-25 radio. Also although I like the Vietnamese figure the pose is a bit weak in as far as if he is throwing a grenade then it doesn't look as if it will go far at all, a bit of a girly throwing action!... Regards
David



Gotta agree with David's comments here.

One of the Caucasion troops needs a PRC-25 and RVN guy doesn't look like he can throw that smoke grenade more than 10 feet. Maybe it's because he's throwing it left-handed? Perhaps bend his rear knee a bit more and cock his throwing arm further back and raise his right arm straight out for balance.

(And I say "Caucasion" troops because these guys could easily be modified into, say Aussie SAS, etc.)

Also, I'm not 100% sure about the AK with the folding stock. I don't ever recall seeing a VN-era photo of that version in use there. Best to replace that with a Chinese Type 56 with the spike bayonet.

Finally, the boots on all of the Caucasion troops need to clearly be Jungle Boots. The boot details in the pics seems to be very soft and indeterminent, and one guy is wearing what looks like WWII lace-up gaitors. Again, I've never seen a photo of any troops in VN with those on.

Having said all of the above, though, the set really does look like "the business." Some good and subtile details there, like the guy with the M79 carrying the wounded trooper's rifle and ruck. A good bit of realism there.

I'd be tempted to do this set as a stand-alone figure vignette just because they look so good.
iamheaminot
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Invercargill, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 04:21 AM UTC
[quote][quote]...Finally, the boots on all of the Caucasion troops need to clearly be Jungle Boots. The boot details in the pics seems to be very soft and indeterminent, and one guy is wearing what looks like WWII lace-up gaitors. Again, I've never seen a photo of any troops in VN with those on.[quote]

Just as a point of interest some aussies wore wwii style gaiters as did some marines - see osprey series on vietnam. mind you i could be wrong

Love the set. mmm diorama material coming up.
walley54
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 04:27 AM UTC
Actually many MACV/SOG members did use WWII lace up gaiters over their jungle boots. Was quite common

WalleyV
Easy_Co
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 07:16 AM UTC
These are great ,I was waitng for the nam G.I. set to be released now ive got to wait for these great work masterbox.
SdAufKla
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 12:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually many MACV/SOG members did use WWII lace up gaiters over their jungle boots. Was quite common

WalleyV



Hi Walley,

Any on-line photos that you can point me to with US SF / Ranger / or SEAL operators in the RVN wearing the WWII gaitors?

I riffled hard through all my refs, but couldn't find any. Plenty of guys wearing the "French" (CIA sterilized) jungle boots (look like super-high-top Converse tennis shoes) and even some Army guys in the USN UDT / SEAL coral boots, but I couldn't find any with the lace up gaiters.

Thanks,
walley54
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 01:02 PM UTC
Hi Mike,

When I get back up to mystudio, I will shoot you the titles and authors of the 3 books I have on MACV/SOG members and operations. There pictures with team members wearing the gaiters. To the best of my recollection MACV/Sog were the only ones who commonly wore the gaiters.

Walley
dioman13
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 01:13 PM UTC
In the words of Flounder from animal house, oh boy, oh BOY, OH BOY! I love this set and really need one or two. Now the big question, which of the 8 V.N.era helicopters in the stash do I use for them. Great looking figures and good action Masterbox. Keep them coming cause these are on my to get list.
Master_Box_LTD
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Ukraine / Україна
Joined: November 08, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 10:23 PM UTC
Dear Friends,

I read as always carefully your discussion and I am very grateful to all who expressed their opinions. Exactly such opinions allow us to make corrections to new kit in time.

Concerning such archaic element of uniform as gaiters, fighters – Soldiers from Special Operations really used them and I am placing here picture showing it with great pleasure.

Thank you again,
Alexander Surzhenko,
Director
Master Box LTD

[img]http://gallery.kitmaker.net/27128/thumbs/904.jpg" BORDER="0">/image.file[/img]
jimbrae
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Posted: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - 10:28 PM UTC


Here's the image that was being referred to in the above post...
dioman13
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 12:47 AM UTC
Consider the fact that D.M.L. released it's MAC/SOG figure set with a figure in gatters years ago, kit #3306. I checked back then, and they were in use. And besides that, Ron V's a very accureate and top notch artist who is very good in his historical research. So Alexander, hats off to you and the company for another great set . You guys really have some great figures and posses which are setting you apart from the rest. As someone else said once upon a time, manufacture them, and we will buy them, or something like that . Now maybe some W.W.2 coast watchers with natives with a radio, hand opperated generator and canoe would be cool to add to your S.O.G. theme. Anyway, keep up with these types of sets and I'll keep buying.
hogarth
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 01:03 AM UTC
I would like to weigh in:

1. The use of leggings/gaiters by MACVSOG is unquestioned. Get John Plaster's big book on MACVSOG (he was a member). Plenty of pics. Or hit up militaryphotos.net and do a search...you'll find plenty.

2. When this set is released, the east German AK has got to go. A folding stock AK is okay, but it should be of the underfolding variety. I have some pics of such in use by American forces in 'nam, so they were certainly available.

3. The grease gun was used by MACVSOG, but far more common was the Carl Gustav "Swedish K"....might be a better choice here.

4. Not TOO many regular M16's in use by MACVSOG, only when the XMI77 was not available (CAR-15). I think arming the guys with CARs plus the one AK and one SMG would be good....and the full size M79 was used some, but so were cut down ones a la the old DML LRRP set....again, this might be a better choice here.

5. The pic above is plainly a group of reenactors, which is fine as these guys tend to be very "gear" focused, but still must be taken with a grain of salt. One realistic note is that they have spray painted their jungle fatigues with black stripes, very common among MACVSOG.

6. EDIT TO ADD: The seven pocket M16 magazine bandoliers worn by two of the figures were RARELY worn by MACVSOG personnel....at least they don't show up in many photos....the only exception I have found is perhaps as part of a reaction or raid force, but not as standard recon gear. They mostly relied on standard m1956 pouches, BAR belts, and 1 qt canteen covers to carry mags and grenades.....and also the AK vest worn by the one figure.

hope this helps.
jimbrae
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 01:23 AM UTC
@ Robert, i've just mailed your comments/suggestions to Masterbox.

For the uninitiated (like myself) here's a link for a thread with some excellent photos:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?125381-Vietnam-war-era-pics-of-special-units-LRRPS-MACV-SOG-AATV-SEALS-FFL-GREEN-BERETS...
Master_Box_LTD
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 01:43 AM UTC
Dear Friends, dear Robert,

Thank you for the detailed analysis of our figures and thank you on the whole for kind relation to our goods.

This all is really very useful for us.

Best Regards,
Alexander Surzhenko,
Director
Master Box LTD
hogarth
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 02:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dear Friends, dear Robert,

Thank you for the detailed analysis of our figures and thank you on the whole for kind relation to our goods.

This all is really very useful for us.

Best Regards,
Alexander Surzhenko,
Director
Master Box LTD



Happy to help. I have MANY photos of MACVSOG, LRRP/Rangers, and Seals on my home computer (am at work now...shhhhh!), and can provide them to whomever...many are from militaryphotos.net, but others came from other sources over the years....I also have many books on these topics but lack a scanner....I can recommend titles, however. John Plaster's books on MACVSOG are a great start, as is Frank Greco's book (I don't have the titles of either in front of me, but an Amazon search can turn them up)....together with Plaster's, these are, to this point, the DEFINITIVE photo books on the subject, as these guys tended to stay out of the camera's eye.
dobon68
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 02:04 AM UTC
Here's a photo from the militaryphotos.net thread which shows Sgt Lee Burkins of RT Vermont 1969/70 time frame in gaiters

Regards
David
SdAufKla
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 06:20 AM UTC
@ Jim: Thanks for posting the link! That's an outstanding reference resource and one that I've added to my bookmarks. (The armor photos on page 33 are fantastic!)

However, I have to say that the evidence simply does not convince me that the pactice of wearing US WWII gaitors was common, much less "wide spread."

I went through all 49 pages, 733 posts, and looked at literally thousands of individuals photographed, and the single photo that David posted is the ONLY one of ANY special operator of any nationality or service wearing US WWII-type gaitors.

There was one other photo of yet another group of re-enactors (the French group GRUNTS) with a re-enactor wearing gaitors. Beyond that, nothing.

At the risk of being argumentive, like I said, the evidence simply does not convince me nor do I believe that it supports the contention that this was a common practice.

In fact, the single photo actually proves to me just how rare or almost non-existant the practive was. For this practice to be considered "common" (much less "wide spread"), I'd expect to see at least a dozen or more photos of SOF troopers wearing US WWII gaitors.

However, I remain open to being proven wrong if someone can produce additional photos.

Thanks again Jim for the great link!
Demchenko
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BRAVO-6
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Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 06:58 AM UTC
I`m agree,it`s very interesting and expression set!
Us usually, ready diorama in a box.
About WW2 leggings.These leggins were used ONLY by MACV-SOG memebrs from CCN (Command and Control North). It was very rare and exotic item and not used by another SF units. That`s why such one as leggins demands another specific features of MACV-SOG (special kind of weapon and equpment-ammo pouches ,CISO rucksacks,radios etc. Also typical structure of SOG group: 2-3 Americans and 5-6 indigenious figthers etc).
hogarth
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 01:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

@ Jim: Thanks for posting the link! That's an outstanding reference resource and one that I've added to my bookmarks. (The armor photos on page 33 are fantastic!)

However, I have to say that the evidence simply does not convince me that the pactice of wearing US WWII gaitors was common, much less "wide spread."

I went through all 49 pages, 733 posts, and looked at literally thousands of individuals photographed, and the single photo that David posted is the ONLY one of ANY special operator of any nationality or service wearing US WWII-type gaitors.

There was one other photo of yet another group of re-enactors (the French group GRUNTS) with a re-enactor wearing gaitors. Beyond that, nothing.

At the risk of being argumentive, like I said, the evidence simply does not convince me nor do I believe that it supports the contention that this was a common practice.

In fact, the single photo actually proves to me just how rare or almost non-existant the practive was. For this practice to be considered "common" (much less "wide spread"), I'd expect to see at least a dozen or more photos of SOF troopers wearing US WWII gaitors.

However, I remain open to being proven wrong if someone can produce additional photos.

Thanks again Jim for the great link!



Everyone wants stuff for free....

If you are THAT interested in MACVSOG uniforms, equipment, pperations, etc., you really need to get Plaster's and Franco's books. They can be pricey but are worth it in my opinion. I don't have access to a scanner and wouldn't post them here due to copyright issues, but there are plenty of pictures (not a lot, but enough) in those books of the leggings being worn.

Remember, these guys stayed out of the camera's eye, and only in the last few years have these books finally been published, as the US Government continued to deny the existence of the unit and its operations. Hopefully, more photos will surface from private collections in the coming years.

I will check my computer at home tonight and see if I find other pics on there of the leggings in use....if I do and I have the time I will post them here.

As Vlad said, their use was not "widespread", and I never said that either, just that there use was unquestioned (up until now, that is, by you). I have never seen a photo of them worn by anyone NOT in MACVSOG, though others have suggested that Aussies MAY have worn some at times.
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