Guess I will just go finish my cigarette and plan my next plastic attack.

Steve: Thank you very much. This is exactly what I was looking for. Now, I have something to base my builds around. Pure evil, right down to The B*tch of Beilstein. I do know something of the SS.
P.S. For those of you who don't know, she had a lampshade made out of the tattoos given to Jewish detainees in the concentration camp.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing Matt. Two of my grandfathers cousins fought in the SS, they were Danish farm boys, and no more evil than you or I, in fact probably less.

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing Matt. Two of my grandfathers cousins fought in the SS, they were Danish farm boys, and no more evil than you or I, in fact probably less.

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Gents, discussing the Waffen-SS is always complex. Undoubtedly there were men who acted strictly as soldiers and did their duty. But we risk getting into an ethical quagmire here if we start to excuse or otherwise comment on the historical record.

Numerous units of the Waffen-SS were guilty of atrocious crimes (see partial list here), both against civilians and POWs. There's no disputing these events. The LSSAH was involved in a troubling number of these actions, beginning in the Campaign in France and ending with the Battle of the Bulge. Additionally, the Waffen-SS and the SS-Totenkopfverbände ("death's head unit") tasked with operating the concentration camps, rotated men in and out of their respective commands, so that camp guards saw military action. That's because, under the Third Reich's conscription regulations, service in the SS-Totenkopfverbände did not suffice for a man's military obligations. So linking the atrocities of the camps to the Waffen-SS is not at all a stretch IMO.

But in the interest of keeping this discussion on topic, I suggest we move on unless someone wants to offer a specific example that contributes to the discussion of the LSSAH weaponry or Waffen-SS weaponry in general.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation in this.

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing Matt. Two of my grandfathers cousins fought in the SS, they were Danish farm boys, and no more evil than you or I, in fact probably less.

---

Gents, discussing the Waffen-SS is always complex. Undoubtedly there were men who acted strictly as soldiers and did their duty. But we risk getting into an ethical quagmire here if we start to excuse or otherwise comment on the historical record.

Numerous units of the Waffen-SS were guilty of atrocious crimes (see partial list here), both against civilians and POWs. There's no disputing these events. The LSSAH was involved in a troubling number of these actions, beginning in the Campaign in France and ending with the Battle of the Bulge. Additionally, the Waffen-SS and the SS-Totenkopfverbände ("death's head unit") tasked with operating the concentration camps, rotated men in and out of their respective commands, so that camp guards saw military action. That's because, under the Third Reich's conscription regulations, service in the SS-Totenkopfverbände did not suffice for a man's military obligations. So linking the atrocities of the camps to the Waffen-SS is not at all a stretch IMO.

But in the interest of keeping this discussion on topic, I suggest we move on unless someone wants to offer a specific example that contributes to the discussion of the LSSAH weaponry or Waffen-SS weaponry in general.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation in this.

---

I know I know Bill,
I tried to give some good info on the vehicles and LAH in general but hey,he brought it up!
There is a lot of wrong info outthere propagated by poorly/spottily researched books usually written shortly following the war when sentiment clouded fact much of the time.
Thanks to new research we can hopefully rise above the older times and enjoy stuff like the wealth of new more accurate infor on vehicles and equipment.
Thus,when older books told the story of overwhelming numbers of"Tiger" tanks blasting through the American lines in the Ardennes we now know that LAH(supposedly always the best equipped)had only 2 understrength companies of Panthers and 2 of PzIVs combined to make one Abtilung with a Bn of Tigers to fill in as the 2nd Abteilung. LAH was understrength in all vehicles in the rest of it's units as well so if this was the top of the line German unit then what did the rest of the unstoppable Tiger steamroller look like?
Not to down grade the bravery af anyone on either side but you really have to pay attention to all details when you read history.
I am reminded of the memoirs of a soldier that I really respect(jumpin Jim Gavin) that wrote about fighting the LAH in the Bulge and wrote about at one point seeing a "giant German Tiger tank with a huge swastika painted on it's front." Really Jim? Hehe And this is from a guy I respect a lot from my old division. So if some one like him can embellish his story a little then what about everyone else?
Sit down some time and read EVERYTHIG there is to read about the Malmedy episode from the German,American and Belgian side both right after the war and later,during and after the warcrimes trial. You will be astounded at all of the things you will find.
I am not very good with words so I hope that I did not offend anyone here,it was never my intention,I assure you.
J
J
?

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing Matt. Two of my grandfathers cousins fought in the SS, they were Danish farm boys, and no more evil than you or I, in fact probably less.

---

Gents, discussing the Waffen-SS is always complex. Undoubtedly there were men who acted strictly as soldiers and did their duty. But we risk getting into an ethical quagmire here if we start to excuse or otherwise comment on the historical record.

Numerous units of the Waffen-SS were guilty of atrocious crimes (see partial list here), both against civilians and POWs. There's no disputing these events. The LSSAH was involved in a troubling number of these actions, beginning in the Campaign in France and ending with the Battle of the Bulge. Additionally, the Waffen-SS and the SS-Totenkopfverbände ("death's head unit") tasked with operating the concentration camps, rotated men in and out of their respective commands, so that camp guards saw military action. That's because, under the Third Reich's conscription regulations, service in the SS-Totenkopfverbände did not suffice for a man's military obligations. So linking the atrocities of the camps to the Waffen-SS is not at all a stretch IMO.

But in the interest of keeping this discussion on topic, I suggest we move on unless someone wants to offer a specific example that contributes to the discussion of the LSSAH weaponry or Waffen-SS weaponry in general.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation in this.

---

I know I know Bill,
I tried to give some good info on the vehicles and LAH in general but hey,he brought it up!
There is a lot of wrong info outthere propagated by poorly/spottily researched books usually written shortly following the war when sentiment clouded fact much of the time.
Thanks to new research we can hopefully rise above the older times and enjoy stuff like the wealth of new more accurate infor on vehicles and equipment.
Thus,when older books told the story of overwhelming numbers of"Tiger" tanks blasting through the American lines in the Ardennes we now know that LAH(supposedly always the best equipped)had only 2 understrength companies of Panthers and 2 of PzIVs combined to make one Abtilung with a Bn of Tigers to fill in as the 2nd Abteilung. LAH was understrength in all vehicles in the rest of it's units as well so if this was the top of the line German unit then what did the rest of the unstoppable Tiger steamroller look like?
Not to down grade the bravery af anyone on either side but you really have to pay attention to all details when you read history.
I am reminded of the memoirs of a soldier that I really respect(jumpin Jim Gavin) that wrote about fighting the LAH in the Bulge and wrote about at one point seeing a "giant German Tiger tank with a huge swastika painted on it's front." Really Jim? Hehe And this is from a guy I respect a lot from my old division. So if some one like him can embellish his story a little then what about everyone else?
Sit down some time and read EVERYTHIG there is to read about the Malmedy episode from the German,American and Belgian side both right after the war and later,during and after the warcrimes trial. You will be astounded at all of the things you will find.
I am not very good with words so I hope that I did not offend anyone here,it was never my intention,I assure you.
J
J
?

---

Thank you for your input, Jerry. I was actually more worried that you were going to give yourself a heart attack over this. I don't mean to offend anyone, however I asked because I had no knowledge of the vehicles fielded by the LAH. I don't mean to stereotype anyone and was going on the judgement of warcrimes.
But, let's get back to the vehicles. I think I have enough info, now. The only problem is there are discrepencies in what I have heard, so far. It would seem that the LAH did have their pick of the vehicles, but were, however limited on the number they could field. The amount they fielded is really inconsequential, as I don't intend to model the entire division tank by tank.