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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M1A2 SEP Build
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
KitMaker: 124 posts
Armorama: 106 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 09:35 AM UTC
Hi guys. Ive been working on Dragon's M1A2 SEP model off and on for a few months now. Its my first armor model in about 8 years. Its a great kit but i did have some problems, all of my own making . I had a very hard time with the rear hull deck. Its made up of a lot of parts and i did not realize i had it misaligned until it was almost complete. There are some gaps i need to take care of but im still trying to figure out how. I also had trouble with the bustle rack on the turret. I had difficulty getting it level and all lined up. Ive got it the best that i can but i ended up having to replace several rails with stretched sprue due to my heavy handedness. Ive learned a lot building this kit. Im sure its not totally accurate but thats not what i was going for. I just wanted to finish a build. I still need to add a few little things hear and there and i also need to figure out the side skirts. This was also my first real try at doing photo etch. It was much harder than i thought. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions are most welcome. I cant wait to start painting but im going to wait until my copy of FAQ2 finally arrives . Here are the photos:
























Sator73
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Florida, United States
Joined: January 11, 2012
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 09:38 PM UTC
nice so far!!
want to get this model,too!
can't wait for update!
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
KitMaker: 124 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 02:39 AM UTC
Thanks Angelo. Its a great kit. Incredibly detailed and a lot of fun to build. I cant wait to start painting it. Any other thoughts or opinions are most welcome, its the only way ill learn
sauceman
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 28, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 02:59 AM UTC
Just a quick note, the drive sprocket should not have the seam.



Other than that it looks good.


cheers
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 05:45 AM UTC
Thanks for the photo Richard, ill have to fix that.
johnlinford
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 28, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 06:28 AM UTC
Looks a good build , but all the tanks I have seen have the 50cal pointing straight forward , I'm probably wrong , but thats what I have seen .Again , nice neat build , good luck with the finish.
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 07:29 AM UTC
Hi John . From what i understand its mounted on a ring that rotates around the outside of the commander's copula. Here is a photo in found showing it off center:

dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 04:14 PM UTC
Well, i decided to try some painting today. Again, remember this is my first armor model in over 8 years. Which means its my first time with an airbrush in over 8 years . I plan on using the Color Modulation Technique with the kit since its monotone. I want to try to liven it up a bit. I primed it with Vallejo Air Grey Primer. I surprised how dark of a grey this is. Almost a Panzer Grey color. I'm use to a lighter grey but oh well.....Onto the actual painting.

I'm not doing pre-shading here. I am laying in the deepest shadow color using Vallejo Air Tank Brown. I got a bit sloppy in some places but that can easily be fixed in the next step. Any thoughts or comments are most welcome.

Sorry about the bad photos. I have a photo tent that i need to find









johnlinford
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: October 28, 2006
KitMaker: 203 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 08:36 PM UTC
Thats a great photo of a dirty tank , and proves me wrong .Well done again and good luck with it .
nolifoto
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Luzon, Philippines
Joined: September 19, 2006
KitMaker: 146 posts
Armorama: 136 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 12:22 AM UTC
Hi Dave! I got this kit a couple of weeks ago and I want to start the build. I'm waiting for your next post with much anticipation. Thanks and nice going so far.
sauceman
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 28, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 06:37 AM UTC
This is turning out nicely, thanks for the update.



cheers
jimz66
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 15, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 04:51 PM UTC
NIce work Dave. I have this one in my stash and I can't wait to work on it.
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - 08:11 AM UTC
Close to finishing the paint on the turret. This is the base coating without any filters or weathering. Its not suppose to look realistic, im just trying to concentrate on getting some color variance. I took these photos with my phone so they are not great. I hope to take better photos later when the wife brings the camera back home

There is greater contrast between colors then what is shown here but it does give the right impression. I primed it, used a dark shadow color, then a dark base color, then the base color, then a highlight. I then went in with a brush and picked out some things with a high highlight. Any thoughts or suggestions are most welcome. Be nice though






dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 12:04 PM UTC
I had my wife take some better photos. Im happy with how it looks. The color modulation turned out well i think . My main concern now is the filters. Im not sure what colors to use. Im worried because the color is pretty cold and more on the light side, while the M1A2 has a warmer, browner tone. Any ideas on what colors for the filters? Any other thoughts or suggestions are most welcome. Thanks guys.





















collin26
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: March 24, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 01:23 PM UTC
Dave,
This is a very cool looking turret. In these photos, it looks like you have done an outstanding job of using subtle color shifts to accent the different features on the upper turret.
Some of the transitions on the flat surfaces are a little abrupt but this can be adjusted with filters for sure. Also, it is possible that this is due to the photo.....shed some light on those photos! It is a nice looking turret.
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 01:27 PM UTC
The white highlights look way too stark to me. I am not a big fan of the artsy preshading/color modulation/filter techniques. I have never seen a tanl that really looks like the ones that these techniques produce. To each their own though. I prefer more realistic finishes over artistic ones.
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 01:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The white highlights look way too stark to me. I am not a big fan of the artsy preshading/color modulation/filter techniques. I have never seen a tanl that really looks like the ones that these techniques produce. To each their own though. Iprefer more realistic finishes over artistic ones.



Gino, i appreciate your comment. I am trying something different. I like the more "artistic" ways of painting. I think it makes to model look more interesting if done right. This is an experiment. We'll see if it turns out.
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 08, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 01:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Dave,
This is a very cool looking turret. In these photos, it looks like you have done an outstanding job of using subtle color shifts to accent the different features on the upper turret.
Some of the transitions on the flat surfaces are a little abrupt but this can be adjusted with filters for sure. Also, it is possible that this is due to the photo.....shed some light on those photos! It is a nice looking turret.



Hi Iain, thanks for the reply. The transition between colors is not as stark as shown here. I need to set up my photo tent and get some lights. These photos are close but not perfect. Any ideas on filters? I'm not sure what colors to use.
Charlie246
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Texas, United States
Joined: January 19, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 08:25 PM UTC
This technique can be really nice if done correctly. I think you have the basic technique down, but you need a few light very thin coats of the base color to tie the modulation together to give it consistency.

As for "real" vehicles looking like this of course they don't, people often forget we are "modeling" very small versions of the real vehicle and this changes lighting and the eyes perception of the object. Standing next to an Abrams of course you don't see the color modulation in real life but standing 300 to 1000 meters away you will see differences in the shading etc. It may even look a different shade of its actual color. This arent just "artistic" approaches this is how lighting interacts with objects in real life. I commend you on the modulation approach much more difficult to do but in reality creates a more realistic looking model to the human eye.
sauceman
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 28, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 12:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As for "real" vehicles looking like this of course they don't, ... but in reality creates a more realistic looking model to the human eye.



Huh?

My issue with the colour modulation is that it gives the subject permanent shadows regardless of the ambient light. I don't think permanent shadows hint at any type of realism, it's just another technique that has showed up to try and liven up a monotone paint scheme.

Kudos for you to give it a try and I agree that the whites give too much contrast, hopefully the filters will tie it in together.


cheers
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 12:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As for "real" vehicles looking like this of course they don't, people often forget we are "modeling" very small versions of the real vehicle and this changes lighting and the eyes perception of the object. Standing next to an Abrams of course you don't see the color modulation in real life but standing 300 to 1000 meters away you will see differences in the shading etc. It may even look a different shade of its actual color. This arent just "artistic" approaches this is how lighting interacts with objects in real life. I commend you on the modulation approach much more difficult to do but in reality creates a more realistic looking model to the human eye.




I still disagree with you. It doesn't look more realistic to the human eye at all. A tank in the distance does not look like the artistically painted color modulation. Sorry, but they just don't look like that. It is just the latest artistic fad.

Like I said above, to each their own.
dlesko
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 12:57 AM UTC
....and again, like I said....I'm trying something different. I'm not an advocate for or against this technique......yet. Let's not turn this into an argument . If anyone has actual suggestions , like maybe what color filter to use or how to tie the colors together, I would love to hear them.
sauceman
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 01:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

....and again, like I said....I'm trying something different. I'm not an advocate for or against this technique......yet. Let's not turn this into an argument . If anyone has actual suggestions , like maybe what color filter to use or how to tie the colors together, I would love to hear them.



Discussion good, argument bad.

As far as filters go the light might be too light and the dark too dark as it sits now. By adding filters you might end up with the dark parts too dark. I would suggest a light shade for filters first and progress from there.


cheers
Citizinsane
Joined: July 27, 2006
KitMaker: 463 posts
Armorama: 450 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 04:21 AM UTC
yeah, that good old CM debate... time to chime in for me!! (imagine the spider-pig theme song)

Dave, I think you did a nice job there, however with the classical CM method (as used by Mig, Adam Wilder and so on) the different gradients usually get bound together by applying heavy chipping around the demarcation lines. I personally feel that's inapropriate for most modern armor in general (esp for tanks like the M1A2 sep which usually are very well maintained.)
I have no problems with CM, used it myself and liked it. however you should maybe tone everything down a little more using a general 'highlight' with a color closer to the actual CARC sand, simply cuz you can't blend these stark contrasts anymore...
IMHO the more subtle the CM is done the more effectful it's gonna be. here's one of my (slightly) modulated models, just using gradients that'll differ in terms of, say two drops of white/light sand to a half an airbrush-cup of the base color. that way you'll have the 'dynamic' look of a complete modulation comnbined with the realistic look most of us are after...



I gotta admit that this might have been a little too subtle but I think that the basic idea should be that you don't see the modulation but only percieve it and start to wonder where all that depth comes from...

one more thing concerning the build. you've used the wrong square-wind sensor beam for the rounded head, also it's 90 degrees too much to the right, if ya know what I mean... the holes shouldn't be there in the first place and if (that means together with the square head) they should face the front and the rear of the vehicle steada the sides...
but it should be an easy fix


Cheers, Max
didgeboy
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 - 06:41 AM UTC
I have no dog in this fight but am gonna chime in with a question and an observance.
1) Dave is this the final colour minus the filters, or are you going to apply a light over coat to this to tie it all in? I am not familiar with the CM technique and have never tried it, and to be quite honest have no real clue about it, although I have done some reading on it. . .

2)
Quoted Text

I personally feel that's inapropriate for most modern armor in general (esp for tanks like the M1A2 sep which usually are very well maintained.)


Max, I am gonna disagree with you here. From my experience even if the vehicle was well maintained there is still, let's call it "scufing" that occurs from the crew climbing on and off the vehicle and just random 'weathering'. Gino, feel free to correct me here, but most of the vehicles from the State side units are/were painted in theater and the paint can wear quickly. This is especially true of GW1 stuff that was painted quickly in theater. Light coats were applied and from sand, rain, fuel, and the crews movements on and off paint was "scuffed" or chipped, if you will, easily and regularly.
I know that in 1994 when I began a project to model my track from DS I was trying to figure out how to model that scuffing that I saw on my vehicle even after being in theater for only 4 months. But again, I am no expert, but am just going off my own observations and experience.

Build looks good and am looking forward to seeing what it looks like when completed. I am eager to try this technique and see how and why it works, and/or doesn't. Cheers.
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