Gentlemen,

I consider myself a bit of an expert (no not really, just a lot of trial and error) on modern Brit sand color, and here's what I would STRONGLY urge you to try with respect to an Operation Telic Chally 2. I've already built one, and used the Tamiya mix suggested in the Osprey book "Modeling the Challenger 1 and 2 MBT and Variants". The mix suggested is 3 parts XF-60 Dark Yellow and one part XF-3 Flat Yellow, which you can see here: https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/190557#1594988. After doing more research, after painting that tank, I realized the color should be lighter, and more yellow. So, what I did was start with my 3:1 mix as stated, then I continued to slowly add XF-1 Flat White and more XF-3 Flat Yellow a few drops at a time into about half of a 23ml Tamiya jar of the 3:1 mix, until it just looked 'right'. The 'new' color is lighter, and more yellow, and I think it is now perfect, for the next Op Telic Challenger I plan to build. I wish I could give you more hard numbers than this, but the 3:1 as a start, with more yellow, and lighter, is the perfect color based on all the pictures I've seen next to colors that I know (such as the current US armor desert color). A little experimentation is key, and I would suggest starting with the 3:1, do a test patch, then start adding the white and yellow, a bit at a time, doing more test patches as you go, until you're happy.

Jason: The "stone" color appears to be a match for MM Sand enamel.
Curtis: The color you came up with is a match to MM Sandgelb acryl.
As I won't be doing an operation telec tank, I will be going with the MM sand enamel. Thanks for the quick replies.

So where's it going to be located? I didn't know they used the desertised setup anywhere except Telic.

Were all of the Challengers in Iraq part of Op. Telec? If so, I will be using MM acryl sandgelb and MM enamel sand.

Operation Telic is the codename for the British operations in Iraq.

Hi again, guys,

Regarding Op Telic: it is true (based on Wikipedia) that ALL Brit Ops in Iraq were part of Op Telic. However, not all of the tanks were in that sand color. I believe that the earlier operations used sand-painted tanks. Starting circa 2005, however, some tanks were deployed in their standard green (see the first link below), and there are images of Challies with mixes of sand and green (second link is one example). The bottom link is to a thread where that second photo was amazingly modeled!!! I have links to even more pictures where the enhanced armor on the front of the tank has sand color panels with green frames. I can dig those up if you are interested.

So, there are lots of options to modeling/painting the Chally. I plan to make 3 more, actually. One with the updated sand color, one in green with enhanced bar armor, using an Accurate Armour set, and a third that will be a Chally based ARRV using another Accurate Armour resin/PE set (color as yet undetermined; the Osprey book models an ARRV in United Nations, heavily chipped, white). Can you tell that I like the Challenger??

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=basra+tank+challenger+2+2005&start=87&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1590&bih=899&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfdb&tbnid=8lDePTpWq-C82M:&imgrefurl=http://www.dipity.com/tickr/Flickr_soldier_in_Iraq_1/&docid=c2O8fFFC-LNn7M&imgurl=http://static.flickr.com/111/280524360_2780b117cc.jpg&w=500&h=326&ei=7PlmT46sJMjL2QXt69nhCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=681&vpy=414&dur=3429&hovh=181&hovw=278&tx=129&ty=109&sig=109510848370677611478&page=4&tbnh=163&tbnw=228&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:87

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=bar+armor+challenger+2+2005&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1590&bih=899&tbm=isch&tbnid=jyzy-pciLd3GKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp%3Fth%3D27263&docid=KjBLbFYqssSEsM&imgurl=http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/member_albums/38231/ca04.jpg&w=1024&h=559&ei=c_pmT5H7F4Wy2QWQq53QCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1044&vpy=180&dur=2342&hovh=166&hovw=304&tx=122&ty=105&sig=109510848370677611478&page=1&tbnh=122&tbnw=224&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0

http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=27263&p=45

Your second link is a fully green Challenger with tan colored barracuda netting on it.

I don't believe I've seen a green Challenger setup like the Tamiya kit, ie, with the sand skirts along the sides. But I haven't looked at a LOT of Challengers either.

The Challenger 2 you are doing is the first Challenger 2 version used in Optelic and should therefore be on a standard desert scheme used by the British army. It should be noted that the hue is different from that of the US army's tank deployed in Iraq.

The link that was given by cabasner is an updated version of the Challenger 2 called TES used in the late 2005 early 2006 roughly. This includes the new armour package and differ from that you are doing (if you count it its more plus the turret's add on). The TES was then upgarded several times sporting yet thicker armour, IED jammers, camera etc...

If you want a detailed discussion on this subject go to a British website where experts on the subject can help you on everything. Here in England there are loads of modellers that specialized on this.

Regarding the colour, well it should have a tint of yellow to it. No straight match straight away. What I used is Tamiya's Desert Yellow then instead of mixing the paint I applied this to the model then do modulation after. I start with Desert yellow then a lighthening of Buff then tinting it with a very diluted desert yellow. After this I do an over all tint of clear yellow. This works for me, the effect will change as you do your weathering.

Here is my 1/72 fully scratcbuilt Challenger 2 TES 2008. This version still sports the dessert coloured tiles which will match the earlier Challenger 2 that you are making.

Despite the lack of "experts" here, I think I have enough information to go on for the color. I'm sticking with the sand scheme.

So just add some yellow to MM Sand. MM Sand by itself it too light/pale.

I want to add some stowage to this kit. I already have soda boxes, a couple of boxes and a few bags in my parts bin. I am looking at Accurate Armor's modern British' pieces. Does anyone have any suggestions where I may find more stowage. Also, is Verlinden the only game in town for an appropriate crew?

I am having some difficulty masking the turret, so I continue on with the hull. A small pe assembly broke off the right side of the hull. I'll have to wait until I order another pe set to replace it. Otherwise, the upper hull is finished.

A small update. Primed grey an then layed down a coat of steel.

looking good!

Top coat on the upper hull and turret. The base I used was white, whith MM sandgelb tracing the inset lines. I may use the pe cip panels, but am unsure due to kit quality. These things were a real pain, made even the more so by how basic a fold as the appear. I will be doing the barrel and mantlet as my next sub-assembly.





You can see the color difference between the upper hull and turret, in this photo. This is the result of not recording how much of each color I mixed to obtain the correct color. I think that a filter and weathering will help to blend the two colors to match.
I will be doing the road wheels, today.

if i wanted to build this in 1/35 how would you suggest doing the camouflage netting on the turret. is there a product i could buy for this.?

The camo net is barracuda camo. I believe either Accurate Armor or Real Model makes this. You can do it, yourself. I can't find the article, but it is on this site.

Matt, cracking build fella, just caught up with your thread.
As for the barracuda cam, look for the Echelon Decals version, i think that they are bar far the most realistic, tricky to apply but well worth the effort.
White Ensign Models in UK stock them and I think the instuctions are on their web site.

HTH

Dan

I have to order a few parts, before I can finish this one. It ranks #5 on my "to do" list.

Hi, Matt

What are the other 4 on your top 5 "to do" list? And the Anti skid came out good and look real to my eyes.

Jay

Guys,
I did a review on some Barracuda Camo here:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/8266

Cheers Rob.

Panzer III J
Shilka ZSU-23-2V1
King Tiger Henschel turret
M3 Grant

Thank you. Masking was a little tedious, but I enjoyed it.

i know this is kinda late in this thread but as for the fine line tape you can probably find larger rolls cheaper at an automotive paint supply store than the same stuff packaged by the hobby supply folks least thats been my expirence by the way the great looking build did it come with any slat armor

I buy my tape at Wal-Mart. No, it did not come with slat armor. Depending on my income, I may add some. Guess I could try scratch building it. But, my love life has spending my money on the most beautiful woman I have ever seen.