Best wishes, Ian
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Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
Where Armorama group builds can be discussed, organized, and updates posted.
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D-Day armor
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 01:46 AM UTC
Worked on the Churchill AVRE last night. That suspension is UNBELIEVEABLE! I built the Tamiya Churchill as a teenager and lets just say that AFV Club has really upped the ante for realism. It has been a smooth build, just a ton of parts. Very nice kit so far.
Best wishes, Ian
Best wishes, Ian
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 01:53 AM UTC
Jeff, the placement instructions for those decals indicate that four out of the five were in the D-Day landings....two for Utah, two for Omaha. I think Tonto was the only one that was not. It looks like "Aide De Camp" is a M4A1 hull judging by the profile so that should be a winner if a A1 is what your were wanting to do. The one next to "Aide De Camp", number 13, also looks to be a A1 hull as well. It looks like the schematics are dated for 06.06.44 so that should be a safe bet. That's why I chose the Churchill I am doing.....I let AFV Club do the research for me!! I would think any one of those would be pretty cool. Anyway, I will quit rambling and back to this Churchill suspension.
Regards, Ian
Regards, Ian
Quoted Text
Like these?
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/bison/35034.html
It gives 2 examples for the A1 BUT, were they involved in the D Day Landings?And no drawings or plates to use as a guidline with them.
~ Jeff
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 01:56 AM UTC
Jeff, like Ian said...
Ian,, great build! Can't wait to see more!
Dave
Ian,, great build! Can't wait to see more!
Dave
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 02:10 AM UTC
Dave, I sympathize with the tank crews that had to do a track change on a Churchill!!!!
Quoted Text
Jeff, like Ian said...
Ian,, great build! Can't wait to see more!
Dave
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 02:30 AM UTC
Well, double bummer. This is not working out for me.
I did finally find the Aide De Camp illustration drawing for those decals and the tank is the A1 with direct vision and M34A1 mantlet. Not for my kit at all. The only thing going for it is the waders.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/bison/bd35034.htm
So, now what?
~ Jeff
I did finally find the Aide De Camp illustration drawing for those decals and the tank is the A1 with direct vision and M34A1 mantlet. Not for my kit at all. The only thing going for it is the waders.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/bison/bd35034.htm
So, now what?
~ Jeff
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 03:27 AM UTC
Jeff,
There are two a1's on that sheet, both applicable. Are they both direct vision versions? Can't see it on the drawings. Anyway, the bison drawings are not always 100% correct...
Both are good for me. They're a1s and from a unit on dday.
Dave
There are two a1's on that sheet, both applicable. Are they both direct vision versions? Can't see it on the drawings. Anyway, the bison drawings are not always 100% correct...
Both are good for me. They're a1s and from a unit on dday.
Dave
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:13 AM UTC
Hi Jeff,
I was looking at that Bison drawing, and it doesn't look like a DV hull to me. It has the add-on armour plate, but the actual hood behind it sure looks like it was the later periscope type as in your kit. (The drawings are crude - look at the hood profile on Hurricane, which I know is not a DV hull...) I can't find a photo of Aide de Camp from the front to confirm or deny, so "no proof is good proof" if you ask me!
The mantlet is the wider M34A1 type, so if you don't have one in the box then you might want to find a spare (ask on Buy/Sell/Trade forum?) or make your own from plastic. If you build it "as shipped" with the stacks you'll want to shroud the mantlet in canvas waterproofing anyway, so only need the rough shape under the tissue-paper canvas. Of course, you could use the excellent Tank WorkShop waterproofed mantlet & gun, which is a resin lump that replaces the whole gun shield/mantlet/tube.
The way I see it you can still build Aide de Camp from your kit!
Hope this helps,
Tom
PS: How's that "building down the stash" going? I've tried it, but the stash keeps growing - the only thing going down is my bank balance!
I was looking at that Bison drawing, and it doesn't look like a DV hull to me. It has the add-on armour plate, but the actual hood behind it sure looks like it was the later periscope type as in your kit. (The drawings are crude - look at the hood profile on Hurricane, which I know is not a DV hull...) I can't find a photo of Aide de Camp from the front to confirm or deny, so "no proof is good proof" if you ask me!
The mantlet is the wider M34A1 type, so if you don't have one in the box then you might want to find a spare (ask on Buy/Sell/Trade forum?) or make your own from plastic. If you build it "as shipped" with the stacks you'll want to shroud the mantlet in canvas waterproofing anyway, so only need the rough shape under the tissue-paper canvas. Of course, you could use the excellent Tank WorkShop waterproofed mantlet & gun, which is a resin lump that replaces the whole gun shield/mantlet/tube.
The way I see it you can still build Aide de Camp from your kit!
Hope this helps,
Tom
PS: How's that "building down the stash" going? I've tried it, but the stash keeps growing - the only thing going down is my bank balance!
BBD468
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:44 AM UTC
Hello Fellas,
Im very happy to see all is well and plastic is being discussed and glued.
I have sealed the filters with a thin coat of flat so im playing the waiting game. Tik Tok...
The Churchill looks good Ian. Man I wouldnt want to have to repair the tracks on that bad boy either.
Gary
Im very happy to see all is well and plastic is being discussed and glued.
I have sealed the filters with a thin coat of flat so im playing the waiting game. Tik Tok...
The Churchill looks good Ian. Man I wouldnt want to have to repair the tracks on that bad boy either.
Gary
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:46 AM UTC
Jeff, I would concur with Tom on this. And like he said, the mantle cover would be easy to address. Form modelling clay over the mantlet and then put a tissue cover over it and then coat it with white glue and water. I think "Aide De Camp" would be your best bet.
Regards, Ian
Regards, Ian
Quoted Text
Hi Jeff,
I was looking at that Bison drawing, and it doesn't look like a DV hull to me. It has the add-on armour plate, but the actual hood behind it sure looks like it was the later periscope type as in your kit. (The drawings are crude - look at the hood profile on Hurricane, which I know is not a DV hull...) I can't find a photo of Aide de Camp from the front to confirm or deny, so "no proof is good proof" if you ask me!
The mantlet is the wider M34A1 type, so if you don't have one in the box then you might want to find a spare (ask on Buy/Sell/Trade forum?) or make your own from plastic. If you build it "as shipped" with the stacks you'll want to shroud the mantlet in canvas waterproofing anyway, so only need the rough shape under the tissue-paper canvas. Of course, you could use the excellent Tank WorkShop waterproofed mantlet & gun, which is a resin lump that replaces the whole gun shield/mantlet/tube.
The way I see it you can still build Aide de Camp from your kit!
Hope this helps,
Tom
PS: How's that "building down the stash" going? I've tried it, but the stash keeps growing - the only thing going down is my bank balance!
PantherF
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:53 AM UTC
I guess I will just totally cannibalize the Italeri kit then and use the A1 mantlet, look for improved parts to replace suspect ones in the Mini Craft like maybe the tracks and such and use the rest as a parts source for later builds ... if there's anything left. I really liked the early mantlet BUT it does have to have the canvas so maybe I'll look for someone who has that AND the decals? Probably not.
Now, just trying to find those decals. Ebay has 'em but not at a great price.
~ Jeff
I really liked the early mantlet BUT it does have to have the canvas so maybe I'll look for someone who has that AND the decals? Probably not.Now, just trying to find those decals. Ebay has 'em but not at a great price.
~ Jeff
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 05:33 AM UTC
Jeff, you may also want to look at Bison Sheet # 35014 which is British D-Day Waders. It has a variety of Mk's on it and most of the tanks are 27th Armored Bgde., a very famous outfit who participated in the landings. Also, I have found a vendor that has the sheet in stock for about fourteen bucks. Check out the profiles and see if any of those are feasible.
Regards, Ian
Regards, Ian
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 05:37 AM UTC
Jeff,
I recently bought those decals at lucky model for about 5 eur, and they do free worldwide shipping on bison decals.
The canvas for the mantlet isn't a must, since that would've been removed shortly after landing.
Looks like you Finnaly have your model.
Dave
I recently bought those decals at lucky model for about 5 eur, and they do free worldwide shipping on bison decals.
The canvas for the mantlet isn't a must, since that would've been removed shortly after landing.
Looks like you Finnaly have your model.
Dave
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 06:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The canvas for the mantlet isn't a must, since that would've been removed shortly after landing.
True - by D+2 or 3 most will have had a break in which to remove the waterproofing. Upper parts of wading stacks also went early (they blocked turret traverse after all...), but the bases required more than a few minutes with a knife & hammer so stayed on many tanks for quite a while.
I'm looking forward to that MiniCraft build - I've never seen one in the flesh!
Tom
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 07:38 AM UTC
Made some progress on the hull of the Churchill. After assembling the umteen-zillion suspension parts, the sponsons were mated to the hull. There was some slight hull warpage so I had to shore up the interior with plastic tubing to push it out. I will probably install a vertical shim to straighten out the back corner of the hull once the top is on as well. Modelling clay and bird egg sinkers were secured inside the hull with Gorilla Glue to give the tank some weight to eliminate floating road wheel issues later on. Anyway, onwards and upwards..............er something!!
Best wishes, Ian
Best wishes, Ian
patton76
Joined: December 01, 2002
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 528 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 10:10 AM UTC
What's in that AVRE Ian? Easter eggs???
Dave
Dave
BBD468
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 10:33 AM UTC
OH, how sweet!!! Theres little baby ARVE's still in tha shell.
Gary
Gary
pseudorealityx
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 10:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What's in that AVRE Ian? Easter eggs???
Dave
The little lead weights used when fishing. They're shaped like eggs. Hence, easter egg sinkers.
pseudorealityx
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 10:38 AM UTC
Oh, and I've got lots of progress on the Firefly... need to snap some pictures and get them posted up.
SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 11:16 AM UTC
It's a brood of baby AVRE's ready to hatch and get busy on some bunkers with their Spigot Mortars!!! Usually I will throw some lead weight in my armor to help them sit level. I had a time getting this one squared up but I just got the hull top on and should be good to go.
Quoted Text
OH, how sweet!!! Theres little baby ARVE's still in tha shell.
Gary
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 01:19 PM UTC
Great progress guys!
Ian - We are building the same tank! I should say will be building.. Step 1 spooked me
. Your ARVE is looking very fine so far, you blew through those sponsons. Interesting tip with the 'eggs'. Do you know which tracks we should be using for the beach, the DS or the workable ones?
Sal - Sharp looking Puma!
'Canadian' Jeff - Ditto on the M7. Glad to hear the fit is good. The transmission details look very crisp, always nice when some interior bit come with the kit.
Gary - Your Sherman doesn't look like a beutepanzer anymore! I'll never doubt you again. Those filters really did their job. Did I see a Sd.Kfz. 251/20 in the background?
Nate
Ian - We are building the same tank! I should say will be building.. Step 1 spooked me
. Your ARVE is looking very fine so far, you blew through those sponsons. Interesting tip with the 'eggs'. Do you know which tracks we should be using for the beach, the DS or the workable ones?Sal - Sharp looking Puma!
'Canadian' Jeff - Ditto on the M7. Glad to hear the fit is good. The transmission details look very crisp, always nice when some interior bit come with the kit.
Gary - Your Sherman doesn't look like a beutepanzer anymore! I'll never doubt you again.
Those filters really did their job. Did I see a Sd.Kfz. 251/20 in the background? Nate SaxonTheShiba
Joined: February 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,233 posts
Armorama: 557 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 02:15 PM UTC
Thanks for the kind words Nate. I had to do some checking on the tracks because I am Churchill ignorant. Found several AVRE photos in the book "British Tanks in Normandy" from 06.06.1944 and the MK IV vehicles show to have the heavy steel track which will be the plastic two piece individual links in the AFV Club kit. Also, although it is very hard to tell, it appears in the decal schematics that both D-Day tanks have the heavy track as well. It's been a very fun build so far and although the suspension is very complicated AFV Club engineered it pretty well. I didn't know the mortar on this thing was a muzzleloader. That must have been fun!!!
Great looking projects from everybody so far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards, Ian
Great looking projects from everybody so far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards, Ian
Quoted Text
Great progress guys!
Ian - We are building the same tank! I should say will be building.. Step 1 spooked me
Sal - Sharp looking Puma!
'Canadian' Jeff - Ditto on the M7. Glad to hear the fit is good. The transmission details look very crisp, always nice when some interior bit come with the kit.
Gary - Your Sherman doesn't look like a beutepanzer anymore! I'll never doubt you again.
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 02:54 PM UTC
Thanks Ian.
Ah, the workable tracks, they call them 'workable' because they are more work to assemble, right? There is a photo of Cheetah on Sword beach http://www.flickr.com/photos/alimarante/4902138943/sizes/o/in/photostream/ it does look more like the heavy track, but I don't trust my b&w photo interpretation skills much.
Ah, the workable tracks, they call them 'workable' because they are more work to assemble, right? There is a photo of Cheetah on Sword beach http://www.flickr.com/photos/alimarante/4902138943/sizes/o/in/photostream/ it does look more like the heavy track, but I don't trust my b&w photo interpretation skills much.
pseudorealityx
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 03:38 PM UTC
Lots of work done... The only other construction thing I've done is add the ammo boxes to the rear radio bustle.
So finally got to the hobby shop on Saturday afternoon, and restocked on some paint. This is a mix by Mike Starmer over on Missing Lynx. It's Dark Green, Olive Drab, and Flat Yellow in a 5:2:2 ratio, which I estimated by eye.
Detail painting was all brush painted with vallejo, reaper, MM acyrl, and tamiya.
Then a liberal dose of Future.
The decals were the tough part. The Tasca decals do not give the full picture for an A squadron, 24th Lancers Firefly. All the tanks had nicknames, as well as the squadron symbol on the final drive cover. So I pinged some Sherman guys I know, and low and behold, someone had the perfect set. This set was researched and printed by Mike Canaday probably ~5 years ago in a very low production run, but I was able to grab a 'spare' set a friend of mine had. It represents a fictitious A squadron tank using "Agamemnon" as the nickname. It even sounds British. The only Tasca decals I used were the fox symbol because it wasn't printed overly well on the other sheet.
And then another liberal dose of Future to seal everything together.
Anyway... pictures!
So finally got to the hobby shop on Saturday afternoon, and restocked on some paint. This is a mix by Mike Starmer over on Missing Lynx. It's Dark Green, Olive Drab, and Flat Yellow in a 5:2:2 ratio, which I estimated by eye.
Detail painting was all brush painted with vallejo, reaper, MM acyrl, and tamiya.
Then a liberal dose of Future.
The decals were the tough part. The Tasca decals do not give the full picture for an A squadron, 24th Lancers Firefly. All the tanks had nicknames, as well as the squadron symbol on the final drive cover. So I pinged some Sherman guys I know, and low and behold, someone had the perfect set. This set was researched and printed by Mike Canaday probably ~5 years ago in a very low production run, but I was able to grab a 'spare' set a friend of mine had. It represents a fictitious A squadron tank using "Agamemnon" as the nickname. It even sounds British.
The only Tasca decals I used were the fox symbol because it wasn't printed overly well on the other sheet.And then another liberal dose of Future to seal everything together.
Anyway... pictures!
BBD468
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 04:00 PM UTC
Whow Jesse, you have been busy bro. Man she's looking good!!! you gonna makeit to the show with it? I hope so man.
Ian, that is a great idea. I have some thick flat washers i could use for the same weight idea. The eggs look much easier to position.
Thanks for the kind words Nate. Yes its the AFV Club "UHU" kit in the back ground. I built it for my nephew a year or so ago. He picked it and i built it for him. Heres a link for a better look if you want. It also has the Blast resin generator upgrade set.
http://modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=1574
Gary
Ian, that is a great idea. I have some thick flat washers i could use for the same weight idea. The eggs look much easier to position.
Thanks for the kind words Nate.
Yes its the AFV Club "UHU" kit in the back ground. I built it for my nephew a year or so ago. He picked it and i built it for him. Heres a link for a better look if you want. It also has the Blast resin generator upgrade set.http://modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gallery&action=display&thread=1574
Gary
BBD468
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 02:51 AM UTC
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