Hey folks. This is an opinion piece. So if you dont agree please argue your point, but remember It's just an opinion.

There are some thing about diorama's that really annoy me. Really annoy me. I love diorama's, I love how hard they are to build and how intricate a story can be woven into what is essentially a 3d photo. But time and time again I see what I consider to be basic mistakes that make me shake my head and dismiss the work of the builder. The following in no particular order:

bits that hang over the edge of the base - Especially tank barrels! If the base is not big enough to fit the model it's probably a bad layout design. Also for practicality reasons, how do you sleeve a glass display cover over the top of a diorama with bits hanging off the side. rarely does it look artsy and effective as a punctuation to the story.

A perfectly detailled up to date full spec bling bling model that obviously took ages to build and lots of work, thrown onto some brown painted plaster or sand and called a "diorama". No sorry fail. In my opinion the diorama should be modelled with as much care as the vehicles and figures. consider that the earth is timeless, terrain and natural features do not recognise a moment in time like a vehicle might - for example a tiger tank pretty much assures the audience of a time period within a few years, but that terrain could be from 100 years ago or yesterday, and had thousands of events occur over it during that time. so for the diorama to be convincing, the model and the figures when removed leave a wonderful terrain / landscape model that could be part of any diorama. A model in it's own right. too often the groundwork is an afterthought. I have trouble recognising a modellers "skills" and awarding kudos for awesome tank/ vehicle building when the groundwork is obviously below par. The same for buildings and other man made structures - they should be models in their own right to be convincing. Lazy diorama bases reflect double standards and shortcuts.

Bad paintwork and shoddy construction. some great story dioramas are ruined by basic techniques being rushed. glossy tanks or egg eyes on figures, magnetic backpacks and stuff like that. but what really annoys me is when you are not allowed to criticise. I know we must encourage newbies, but sometimes if the person is resistant to advice they need to be told straight. Moderated forums often discourage the later.

Bitumen roads made of sandpaper. Unless that is a band new road, it couldnt possibly look like that. furthermore if your modelling a war scene, shouldnt the diorama "sell" the story? that is offer clues to the nature of the vehicle and its landscape it operated in ? and worse still if you have ever seen a 60 tonne tank drive on bitumen, no matter how clean, it wrecks the tar , leaves indents from the cleats, leaves scuff marks etc. bitumen roads in the sun deform from the melting of the tar, and the weight of vehicles that go over them, then it cracks, gets potholes, has service entrances etc. Using sandpaper is just lazy. only excusable if the modelled vehicle is an example of lazy workmanship so fits the standard of the builder.

buildings with blanked out walls or behinds so the interior does not have to be modelled. Lazy. I find that really bad planning. Only excusable when the diorama is destined to never ever be viewed from the back side angle with the blanked walls. If that is the case then I would not expect anything else to be detailed on the rear side. or else its a lazy excuse to of not done the builing. why detail the back of a tank when it will never be viewed from the rear of the diorama? I argue dioramas stored ina cabinet or shelf should have a mirrored back so show off all that hard work.

Thats my chief peeve list. I had to type this to get it off my chest. I know some will be really annoyed at this and write me off. call me a troll if need be.

one last thing, some people build for themselves, not competition. good for them I say, and they usually get told do whatever they want there are no rules. I kinda disagree, If they are building for themsleves why am I being asked to be their audience? surely that is what building for themselves is - being their own audience? If they build for an audience its no longer for themselves is it ? There is no getting around the fact that when the rules are applied, the outcome is nearly always superior to dioramas that bent or broke the accepted attributes of dioramas. Want proof? find me pictures of Verlinden, Mig, or any other published builder who repeatedly hangs barrels over the side of a diorama - they wont exist. the best builders in the world whom we happily strive to duplicate their painting techniques or weathering, just do not try to bend the accepted standards. Even Verlinded who toyed with kidney shaped bases, still didnt overhang things.

SO thats my opinion. Opinions are flawed I know. But I struggle to keep mine to myself sometimes!

Adam

The whole purpose of this site is to become a better, more knowledgeable modeller. If you care so much, simple respond in a beneficial manner to the thread. The next diorama will, most likely, be better. This is a rant and has no place, here.

Adam,
The only thing I would agree with you about is calling a model tank sitting on a patch of bare ground work a diorama. Everything else......well it's your opinion. In my opinion... everyone has different levels of skill, income, free time, and devotion to the hobby not to mention differences in age. It's really just a hobby my friend. Some take more seriously than others that all.

Adam

I would have to agree with Art, it is a hobby, and each person does it there own way. If I was to be blunt, I would say if you don't like the look of a diorama, then just move on.

But you did raise one point that I do agree with, especially in 1/35 scale, I find a lot of eyes on figures painted too big. This is just my opinion, as I know sometime in scale modelling some items tend to get exaggerated for effect. As some items would be so small why might not see them.

Good rant, and appreciate other peoples opinions.

Hmmmm Yeah... There is something to say for your points but as you say it is an opinion.

But you are generalising a lot here. In your examples you kind of expect everybody to be the Rembrandts of the hobby. Which is nice but in the actual real world it simply doesn't work like that. You have modelers with varying skills and experience and therefore you will see differences in quality. I second Matt on his reply. I think it is better to share experience with those who have less of it and show them a way to improve. Complaining in an open letter to the crowds on what you think is wrong with a lot of people outside your own skillset is not.
A lot of modelers built with what they have available at the time. I am no exception. For most part of my life I have learned to built with low grade stuff. From paints to tools to brushes to materials. There simply was not much money and I still love to do it that way.

I agree with you that you can't put a top painted and weathered model on a base that doesn't match. However for me that is mostly a matter of color. But if you have mud on the vehicle your base should look equally muddy to show where it comes from.

I really can't fathom why a modeler should not hang things over the edge of the base. If he or she wants to it is his or her absolute freedom to do so. I gather from your post that you are a die hard fanatic of the written and unwritten rules of diorama building and that the word of the earlier bookwriters is Holy. I personally am somebody who likes to play with the rules and adjust them when it suits me. I have put things over the edge of the base to enforce the idea of motion. Hell I even did it in my last project. Probably it will be dismissed as blasphemy in your church of modelling but I can live with that. Not much of a believer anyway. I did it because it fitted with my philosophy and I still think I did a good choice there. Maybe it is my background in designing. But what you may think of as a bad choice is done in real consideration and every bit of my works are always thought out to the tiniest details and even colors before I even start. I have toyed a lot with the rules through the years and always got good feedback through the years. Even managed to rake in a few prizes at contests. So the rules are not that important there either.

I somehow always appreciate efforts of fellow modelers. No matter how high their experience level is. 99% of all the modelers I know don't eat from their scalemodelling work and they practice it as a hobby. I respond with advice where I see it neccesary and if they decide to do nothing with it that is fine with me as well. I built models because I like to and it gives me some peace after work hours. And I like to built models and diorama's the way I thought them up in my mind according to my philosophy and vision. Occasionaly I write them in for contests. My work will never appear in books and I'm not planning to write any. And believe me that is totally fine. And if you want to judge me for what you deem you think I do wrong. I give you all the freedom to do so. You probably have more problems with it then I have.
I have all the books and bibles. I probably know them by heart. And they are all from extremely good and skilled modelers like Verlinden or MIG. And I soak up any tip, hint and trick. I read every bit of advice. But in the end. It are my works. And there is only one person who decides how my works get created. And what ends up in my works. And funnily enough. They are not named Verlinden, MIG or Tony Greenland... It is me.

With friendly greetz

Robert Blokker

Adam

I respect your opinion and obvious passion for modelling.

I love to model which I do as a hobby. I am not a profesisional nor have I ever entered a competition. It is only recently that I have shared my efforts with a forum as I treated my efforts as my personal thing which I enjoyed doing for my benefit. I was a bit wary of joining a forum as it can be quite demoralising when your efforts are torn to bits by non constructive criticism over smal pedantic points which really are nitpicking. I have to say at this point that I have not found that on this forum and have found the experience good and the criticism that there has been has been objective and will hopefully make me a better moddler.

I like many moddlers do it on quite a tight budget which means that top notch models may be out of our reach but we make do with what we have and do the best we can with them.

I will never criticise someone's efforts as I know that they have put thought and effort into their creation. However I will give them pointers as to how things can be made better and it is up to them if they decide to try it or not as they might think that my efforts do not fit what they are trying to do (fair play).

I would love to have the skills of people like Verlinden ect but I do not although I think a lot of the fun is trying to improve and get better doing something you love.

Cheers

Gerry

Hi Adam

Nice rant :-)

I concur with almost your entire post, maybe except for the "hang over " part. If someone wants to hang over a part and it does not look to weird, so be it. Of course he needs to deal with some problems associated with it transport, damage and others.

I think the response to your rant would be the following question:

At what point of his expertise level is a modeller "allowed" to present a diorama at all?

Only after completely mastering every single aspect of a good dio or is he allowed to enter the diorama world with only a partial expertise and evolving from that point with the help of others?

I think there is no way to answer that one, see all my predecessor's posts

Greets
Claude

Well, in my humble opinion, it isn't just a matter of low budget. There are other problems which an average modeller has to tackle to make a flawless diorama.

First of all the time. I agree with you, in a good diorama all the elements should be built with the same accuracy of the main vehicle(s). It means that a diorama could really take ages to be finished in a perfect way. I think that actually few modellers have so much time to spend. Some of them have busy jobs or sons. On average I think that many of them can build their stuff only at the weekends. I really envy the guys who can manage to do some great jobs in spite of their engagements (Looking at your outstanding jobs,I'm sure you're one of them), but I think that the majority can't manage to do it. So the "lazyness" which you mantioned in your post is maybe just a way that they adopt to complete a build in a shorter time and maybe they know that their jobs have some flaws, but they can live with them. You may say that they could take the right time to complete their jobs in a decent way, but in my opinion, dealing with endless projects could be frustrating and annoying indeed for many modellers. I think that few of them can really stand making only a job per year.

The second problem which an average modeller have to deal with is the space. How many modellers have a room where they can build their stuff? If they are lucky enough, how large is that room? To make a good diorama it would be needfull a large room where you can keep it while you're building. If you're forced to tidy up your bench every time, building a diorama in a perfect way is almost impossible. That's another reason why in my opinion, many modellers have to take some shortcuts to complete a job.

Regarding the criticisms, I totally agree with Mat and Robert when he says that all in all we are the only judges of our jobs

Cheers

Crazy rant, of which I would only agree with a couple of points: the bug eyed figures and the packs that are glued to the sides of tanks. I don't care if a tank barrel hangs over the side. To me, it in no way detracts from a scene. For me, personally, especially on stand-alone tanks on a simple base (NOT a diorama), it saves space in my cabinet.

As others have said, at one point is someone "allowed", according to you, to display their work? Must someone be a "master modeler" (whatever that even means)?

Don't like something? Move along. Have some constructive criticism? Add a post so that others may learn from your opinions.

Been there, done that.
It’s kind of funny because I have done everything you mentioned at some point or level since I got back into modeling. Someone here who pointed it out to me and as was stated earlier; next time I was a little better.
Yes even the self-righteous hypocrites “model for love” crap, helped in some manner.

It all just comes down to the modeler; sometimes I really do see your point. Diorama named “Somewhere in Holland” and has a building from Italy, with equipment from North Africa, 2 tanks head to head with someone hanging laundry nearby, and the person saying “Yes but it could be anything”, and basically just trashes everything being said to help and just continues on. I see it a lot in the campaigns, just slap it together to get the ribbon yes there are ribbon collectors as well as most posts in a year people, here 2 years with 4000 posts…..

On this site it’s just take the grain of salt, help where you can, and do a lot of not taking anything to heart and “Model what you love man”!!

Bob
(And remember to use those smilies)

Read your post and to myself it comes over as very harsh, not all modellers have the same degree as modelling as others, for instance you do get some modellers that are colour blind, I for one know what that is like!

Also after reading your post, it comes over as if you are trying to say that if certain modellers cant get it right, and that their dioramas need be prefect(in your eyes)then they simply shoud`nt bother modelling.

If that`s the case, then you must be a perfectionist! I know i see modelling as a past time, a hobby that i can relax whilst doing and express myself while building a kit or building a diorama scene, I do not take it as the be all and end all of modelling, It is just a hobby for some and therefore treated as that!

If i have got the wrong end of the stick in what you are trying to state, then i do apologize, If not...you should chill out a little, and not take it to heart or to seriously, simply move on, and don`t let it bother you on what others see as a diorama, after all not everyone is perfect!

First of all Adam your Aussie's in Iraq Diorama was awesome and You have some valid points herebut unfortunately they are mostly lost in what is in effect a rant.





As soon as you notice something that annoys you (Really annoys you) in a diorama you should IMMEDIATELY log off and go have a cup of camomile tea






Not always a mistake -sometimes a choice- not a choice you'd make but then it's not your diorama




Glass display covers are not mandatory are they?


/

And if they still resist? What should we do then? Send the modelling police around and confiscate their Xacto knives and glue maybe




Does this include models stored in a private home or only in public?




Why stop there tell us some of the lesser peeves too




You should do what I do when I get annoyed at the internet- type a long rant of a reply and then.................delete it




Not a troll but a bit over zealous in sharing your opinions




Unless a modeller directly marks their post directly for your attention then you have a choice whether to be part of the audience or not. I have clicked into threads, not liked what I saw and clicked out again in under a second- it doesn't annoy me because A: life's too short and B: It's only modelling. If people continue to post stuff you don't like -there's always the Hide User button- I use it





What are the "Accepted standards"? Is there a list somewhere?
Also we don't all strive to duplicate the techniques of the "Great" modellers most of whom do actually always push the boundaries of what's acceptable.
BTW I'm not a big fan of Verlinden but it's okay if you like him




try harder

Hey folks

This is my opinion, but it's just an opinion.

There are some things that really annoy me, maybe they really annoy me. I love the English language; I love the difficulty of structuring sentences and paragraphs into a story. Unfortunately, time and time again I see what I consider to be basic mistakes that make me shake my head and dismiss the prose of the writer. The following are in no particular order:

Sentences should really start with an uppercase character; it signifies the start of a sentence or a name e.g. day of the week, although interestingly not the name of a season. I also frown at the misuse of hyphenation which should be used to join words or to separate single word syllables. I also have to say, at the end of a sentence there should be two spaces not one; it does look artistic and offers effective emphasis to the story.

A perfectly detailed sentence should also be free from basic spelling mistakes; a story that obviously took some time and effect to write can easily be spoilt with words just thrown into a sentence and called a story. In my opinion the story should be written with as much care as the point the writer wishes to convey. Consider that language is timeless, words and sentences combining in harmony to inspire and motivate.

So for the story to be convincing, consider the apostrophe, I love the apostrophe, don’t you just hate it when the apostrophe is constantly misused. It’s an enigma in its own right, punctuation is often an afterthought, but I have trouble recognising a story teller’s skill without it.

Bad spelling and shoddy sentence construction ruin great stories by the lack of basic techniques, but what really annoys me is that you are not allowed to criticise. I know we must encourage those with fewer skills, but if the person is resistant to advice they need to be told straight. Unfortunately, there are rules, but if you wish to argue, find me a published writer that repeating makes basic spelling and punctuation errors.

That’s gotten that off my chest, I know some people will be really annoyed at this and write me off; possibly calling me a troll, so be it.

Adam, it’s easy to criticise, it is much harder to look at a piece of work and consider that the person that created put everything they had into it. I am not the best modeller, I am not an expert at the English language, but at all times I give it my best. All I ever ask is for some respect, like you and everyone else on here, I deserve it.

Adam

What Daren said ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I was just too damned lazy to think up anything as damned funny and smart as he did as a repost to your rant !!!!!!!!

Chill ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it's a hobby !!!!!!!!!! It's meant to be fun !!!!!!!!! And I do like the helpful critisism !!!!!!

Folks have varied skill sets !!!!!!!!!

JMHO

Nige

All;

I see Adams point and in his defense (if any is needed) he did say that this was a rant and only his opinion. I think he makes some valid points and I also think the rest of you do as well.

Even if the skill of the modeller is "weak" some attempt should be made to make the diorama as good as it can be, including looking at the back side and other details.
It is a hobby however and there are always going to be those that are lazy and take short cuts, that is human nature.

I know I have had my beef for twenty years with tank modellers never bothering to chew up the tread pads and road wheels on a kit. I have seen MASTER builders, actual PUBLISHED modellers that have NEVER touched the road wheels and or tracks but have weathered the hell out of the rest of the vehicle.

Having said that, had I never actually served on a tank, I might never have considered it either.

So chalk some of it up to lack of exposure or lack of thought or whatever, but there will be those that always strive for excellence and those that just want to get the project finished. I know that I spent a lot of time getting my Blazer finished and trying to make sure it looked good. I even built a base for it (and the gun hangs off the end-I never considered the over hang, chalk it up to inexperience in actually finishing a project). I am now trying to finish my land rover ambulance and I can tell you that I am more concerned with getting it done than getting it done right, but that is this project.

So I say rant away, your not hurting my feelings a bit, but I have pretty thick skin. I think that bringing these points up is great, as I know that next time I will consider some of this and may or may not cut those corners as I see fit.

But it never hurts to have someone keeping you honest. Cheers.

Adam, with respect I would say that your post might have been better received if it had been presented as "Some helpful suggestions dio-builders might consider.", rather than "Things about dioramas that really annoy me".

You could have made all of your same points in a way that was helpful and instructive to other modelers rather than as an angry rant about things others don't do or do poorly (in your opinion). Couching it in terms of an "opinion" doesn't necessarily take out the sting for those that are new to the hobby or those with lesser skills than modelers like yourself (which, I would guess is most of us).

Your Aussies in Iraq dio was just a fantastic accomplishment and I truly enjoyed following your progress and seeing the final result. But it is really unfair to hold others to your standard of building by listing what you perceive as "pet-peeves" when most don't have the skills, time, resources or knowledge to do some of those things.

I think what you MIGHT be trying to say is that modellers should maybe "care more" about their final product and I can respect your wanting to encourage others to have the same level of passion that you do for the hobby. But again, a better way to do that would be by encouraging change with positive instruction rather than trying to shame others by calling out their "failings" in your eyes.

Given your level of skill, I'm certain that you have earned a high level respect on this forum. Negative rants like the one above diminish that respect in some way I think, and I would not like to see your comments dismissed because you could not make your points in a more encouraging fashion. Please consider this for the future and use similar opportunities to teach rather than to belittle.

Regards.

Dear Adam,

Having read your considerations, two things came to my mind:
1. I never found any instruction leaflet in my model boxes which tells me how to integrate my finished model into a diorama. Which I like since I build them to RELAX my mind and body and
2. This site inspiers me a lot: I see models from all over the world, made by people who enjoyed their construction and are sharing their efforts with me (us).
This site, to me, is to be understood as an open one, with no restrictions and regulations other than covering miltary models and respect to each other.
What you require ( as I understand it, but I am not a native speaker of English) is that you expect people to follow minimal standards and regulations. By the way: which standards and regulations? Verlinden, The Northern School, MIG's? Yours?
If we start doing so it would be a pitty since only very few of us would be able to show their models.
Please, dear Adam, is it not like being married? The wife you married and do regard as the most beautiful in the world might look like an ugly one to another man!
If you do not like the subject, just try to find one you like. It's a free (model)world.

Enjoy your day!

Adam let me interject with my two cents worth if I may.

I think that this very site has been a godsend to those of us in need of "coaching" in the art and science of modeling.

Not being a master modeler myself; or for that matter not having known any master modeler's personally during my formative years, this site has given me the ability to learn from the very best in the "business".

It has also allowed those same brilliant builders, yourself included Adam, to be able to give myself and others like me instant feedback and guidance that in years past would have been nearly impossible. And if it could be done it would usually be more expensive. And possibly take months to get a response. I am speaking of course about the "ask the editor" sections of various magazines of previous eras which I could not afford to subscribe to even back in the day!

Iron sharpening iron so to speak.

Perhaps the greatest benefit of this particular site and others like it is just that... that ANYONE can learn from anyone on this site. Even the masters can learn from the students. That is the beauty of this type of forum site.

Most of us here I am fairly certain model mostly for themselves, and occasionally for competitions. Some model professionally, and 100 percent of us here began our modeling as a hobby, which is how the majority of us here would still classify our status.

We are amateurs by definition and need to have input into our efforts so that we may become better amateurs. I for one am thankful that I have a forum in which I can post my works and receive input that i could sort through in order to improve and grow in my skills.

I personally know that before I started posting my WIP pictures here on Armorama I didn't have anyone to bounce things off of or learn from. I was in the dark ages, but have definitely seen the light now!

I also know that I have things that I cannot or will not or do not want to look at in regards to the hobby, but if I see them on a post I just pass that one by.

I appreciate the fact that we are free to make our opinions known, and I also appreciate the fact that I am not bound by the opinions of anyone else in respect to my own work. At the end of it all I think that both Pat & Darren perhaps said it best.

I just felt like putting in my Two Cents Worth.

Thanks for the opportunity to practice my second hobby: giving my opinion. You did ask for it after-all!

Dave

Thankyou for your kind and thoughtful comments.

I hoped this thread gone away.

Just a word, don't type out a rant after a heavy night of drinking and passionate discussion with fellow model builders......

Adamskii

Hi Adam,

As a newbie diorama builder (see forum above for my first piece, "Endgame"), I take on board your comments.

I think it helps to have general modelling experience before attempting a complex scene (as opposed to a simple vignette), simply to have the experience of finishing a kit to a good standard, and as you say, there are certain basic rules of setting out a scene that will enhance or detract from the finished installation.

In the case of ""Endgame" I tried to use triangulation to help balance the piece, e.g., looking down on the diorama you could draw lines that effectively create triangles of interest, between corners of buildings and tank, between flag, steetlamp post and tank team, and so forth.

I spent ages on the buildings to try to make them look realistic, but when these photos were posted recently on another forum, I was asked why I had not had included more upper storey work to the rear of the buildings. My answer was (1) the MiniArt kit only had a modicum of upper storey work included, (2) the buildings depicted were meant to replicate the result of saturation bombing and (3) although possible to scratchbuild additional upper storey detail, the team of tank hunters at the base of the end building would have been somewhat obscured, and their visible presence was what in my view created dramatic tension.

Everyone has their own take of course. There are simple scenes that are effective, but another simple scene can look unconvincing and toy-like, where an assemble-by-numbers approach leaves the viewer cold.

What's the difference? Experience? A touch of the artist?