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Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Help for a beginner!
Arznek
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Ohio, United States
Joined: November 07, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 03:56 PM UTC
Hi,
I'm a sophomore in college on a very limited budget. When I was younger I loved working on HO scale trainsets, but I never encountered rubble in my sets. I have many rubber rock molds and plaster of paris, and also some Woodland Scenics materials. I've recently completed a M4 Sherman, which I'd like to incorporate into a small destroyed village scene.


Please excuse the poor image quality!


Here are some of my questions:
What is the best (and realistic) way to create rubble?
Do most of you fellow modelers use Woodland Scenics products?
Is blue insulation board the best way to go?

firemann816
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:03 PM UTC
Just a thought -
Would the material that you used in your track ballast serve as the smaller chunks?
You know, the stuff you applied over the corkbed to look like gravel.
I'm sure it will appear very small at 1/35 or 1/48 scale if you came from HO (1/76 if my memory serves.)

Also a rock that cleaves into very small fragmentary chunks may help, limestone or gypsum.
Cat litter has been used.
Aquarium gravel (some of the more grotesque colors must be painted)
HTH

Welcome to AFVs, good luck, and keep the pics coming along
Arznek
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:09 PM UTC
Yes! The ballast may work, but as you pointed out I think it's a bit too small for the majority of the diorama. The M4 model is a Tamiya and 1:35 scale.

Here is another very newbie question; what does AFV stand for?
firemann816
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:29 PM UTC
I'm NooB also,
But I think it means Armored Fighting Vehicles.

Try painting some Aquarium gravel the tones and colors you want, with Kitty Litter, and ballast, you'll only need a handful to simulate the various sizes....
A book I have on Diorama's which I highly recommend for Beginners, from Amazon, author's name is Shepard Paine, recommends a product called "CelluClay" ???
Never used it but I bet the MR world is up on it also.
Shep also recommends crushed gravel, with minimal smooth edges...

Here's the URL to Shep's book, ask Santa to help you out

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0890241953/qid=1068179297/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-1444573-4256046?v=glance&s=books#product-details
Arznek
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:32 PM UTC
Did I mention I'm on a very limited budget? hahaha
firemann816
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

ask Santa to help you out



Good luck, great book.
Other folks will second that after they see our thread...
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 11:52 PM UTC
Check these out they may help
https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/142
https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/112
https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/58
https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/248
Kancali
Vendor
KANCALI
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Washington, United States
Joined: July 20, 2003
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2003 - 02:29 AM UTC
Hacked up foamboard from the craft store works good for large chunks of rubble..
Pour plaster on top of the lid of a tupperware piece, let dry, and break up into pieces...
Both of these methods for rubble are inexpensive and work good when
blended with gravel, rocks or sand.
If you want to add bricks check out my post under Dio Forum topic.. BRICK MOULD..
Good luck
sourkraut
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Indiana, United States
Joined: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2003 - 02:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just a thought -
Would the material that you used in your track ballast serve as the smaller chunks?
You know, the stuff you applied over the corkbed to look like gravel.
I'm sure it will appear very small at 1/35 or 1/48 scale if you came from HO (1/76 if my memory serves.)

Also a rock that cleaves into very small fragmentary chunks may help, limestone or gypsum.
Cat litter has been used.
Aquarium gravel (some of the more grotesque colors must be painted)
HTH

Welcome to AFVs, good luck, and keep the pics coming along



what about the track ballast material from the larger train scales? S scale or O scale
just a thought.
Neill
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California, United States
Joined: May 26, 2003
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Did I mention I'm on a very limited budget? hahaha



Go Cheap... As a Scot by heritage I spell that “W I S E”…

You mention you had plaster of Paris - pour your rock molds and then place them in a plastic bag and give them a few good smacks with the hammer or against a hard surface. Instant rubble.

Make the Plaster of Paris a little drier and form it into a flats square/rectangle approximately ¼ thick. With a knife or pencil scribe on a brick pattern or rock pattern or wanted pattern you choose. Again let dry – SMASH – instant brick/rock rubble.

Go hunting --- Walk around the campus or town with a few plastic sandwich bags and collect dirt and small rocks in street curb gutters - great for ground work or to add to your building debris.



With the exception of a $7 can of Durhams Water Putty (you can use Plaster - though Water Putty is stronger) and Paint, none of the material used for these buildings was purchased. Even the wood (framing and roof) was collected from gift packages or cabinet shop trash dumpsters. The stain glass window is a plastic box from a calculator I purchased for my daughter. Find a local custom cabinet shop and see if they will let you have their scraps... they throw out stuff you and I normally would have to purchase.

Check out the great articles in the Diorama Feature Section here Armorama on building walls, debris etc.

Godd Luck,

John
www.johnneill.com
daredevil
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California, United States
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2003 - 01:23 PM UTC
Welcome!
I too, started on a fairly limited budget--and it's amazing what's right in front of us all the time. Have to think in small scale terms, but when walking outside you may see stuff laying right on the ground that may work--gravel, rough dirt, etc. The recommendation to check out Sheperd Paine's book is well worth it, but I have to tell you, for my money the best scenery building book I bought (and I have many of them!) was "Terrain Modeling" by Richard Windrow (Osprey Masterclass). I paid $29.95 for it at a hobby store (impulsive), then found it mcuh cheaper at amazon.com. Might be worth saving up and buying it--I don't think you'll regret it. There are many rubble scenes included.
--daredevil
Arznek
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2003 - 02:45 PM UTC
Everyone is being of great help! I'm trying a lot of these things out and when I get something presentable I'll be sure to post some pictures!
sourkraut
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Indiana, United States
Joined: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2003 - 03:12 PM UTC
We have 3452 minds at work here.There is no problem we cant solve!
Well except for maybe that north korea problem anyway
firemann816
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Friday, November 07, 2003 - 04:53 PM UTC
I liked Slodders post and Kancall's

Seems to me if you poured some into a lid and roughed the surface up while it dries, so it doesnt dry smooth like "pudding skin," and then bash it into pebbles...
quick cheap rubble.

Post pics of the Sherman dio you make, you owe us now, .
panzerseba
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Vrancea, Romania
Joined: May 27, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 06:41 AM UTC
Ihave also alimited budget (I'm from Romania) and for this i try use something cheap. for rubber i use cat litter that can be easy paint and also you can make as small as u want
Neill
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California, United States
Joined: May 26, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 03:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

"Terrain Modeling" by Richard Windrow (Osprey Masterclass). I paid $29.95 for it at a hobby store (impulsive), then found it mcuh cheaper at amazon.com.




Also check out EBAY.com - I picked up a OSPREY MAsterclass book - Bill Horans for $7 + $3 Shipping... great deal!

John
www.johnneill.com
PLMP110
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Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 04:27 PM UTC
Letting plaster set up and then breaking it into smaller pieces is the easiest way to go. What makes a pile of rubble realistic is the other "stuff" from the builing. Break up small pieces of balsa wood and scatter it throughout the pile. If you have access to any lab supplies, slide covers make excellent windows or broken glass from windows. It's the extra little details that help.

Patrick
Arznek
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 09:32 PM UTC
I still have a bunch of scrap bulsa from when I was younger, and I'm sure my Geology Lab professor will be willing to donate some slides =P Thanks for the tips again
keenan
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Indiana, United States
Joined: October 16, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 03:08 AM UTC
Arnek, Welcome aboard. When I was going to Purdue I used the librabry a lot. They probably have a free inter library loan service. Look for the books that were mentioned above and if your university library doesn't have them, they can probably get them for you to borrow for nothing.
(Why buy when you can borrow?)
Just a thought.

Shaun
firemann816
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Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 03:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Look for the books that were mentioned above
Just a thought.
Shaun



Probably one of the best he's been given yet.
too simple, I hate it when I miss the obvious.
Nice job, Shaun
Arznek
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 06:51 AM UTC
Great idea Keenan! It's all free at our library, so I'm gonna check it out asap
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