Hosted by Darren Baker
UN Patton?
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 12:22 PM UTC
I know that the UN employed Patton tanks. From what I have seen, they appear to be M60A3s. Is this correct and, if so, which kit should I go with? I'm thinking the Revell or Italeri would be best, but this is only because they are reboxes of the venerable Esci kit.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 01:07 PM UTC
The UN doesn't employ any tanks. The member countries who sign up to support the individual peace-keeping/peace enforcement efforts send their own equipment under their own commands. There probably have been M60A3 Pattons on UN missions. The best bet would be to find a pic of one and model it.
You are correct on the best kit to model them though.
You are correct on the best kit to model them though.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 01:09 PM UTC
Thanks Gino. That's what I meant, but figured it would be easier to post "UN" than all the assorted counties.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 02:14 PM UTC
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 06:22 PM UTC
Jason: Thank you. I had almost lost hope of finding one in UN markings. This will be very helpful.
The inspiration came from "Blackhawk Down". So, I will be doing the tank as it was fielded by Pakistan.
The inspiration came from "Blackhawk Down". So, I will be doing the tank as it was fielded by Pakistan.
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 08:00 PM UTC
Pretty sure it were Jordan that had the M60's in the Balkans. Have another photo somewhere on the HD. They had white M88's to go with 'em.
Regarding Somalia I can't remember any white M60's, only T-72M1. I'll check the old Concord books when I get home.
Cheers,
/E
Regarding Somalia I can't remember any white M60's, only T-72M1. I'll check the old Concord books when I get home.
Cheers,
/E
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 08:03 PM UTC
I will be doing the M60A3, even if it wasn't present in Somalia. I have found a couple of photos of the Patton, as it was fielded in peace keeping missions.
Tanksami
Joined: August 06, 2011
KitMaker: 1,314 posts
Armorama: 1,217 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 08:05 PM UTC
Matt,
I maybe wrong but I thought that the Pakistanis were using the M48 in Blackhawk down??
Cheers Mike
I maybe wrong but I thought that the Pakistanis were using the M48 in Blackhawk down??
Cheers Mike
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 - 08:09 PM UTC
I've done a few searches for Pattons employed by Pakistan. I can only find one or two b/w photos of it. The M60 is much more common. This is without much, if any, exterior differences to the version used by the US. So, no Nagmachon upgrades or Blazer armor.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 01:32 AM UTC
Both the Italians and the Pakistanis used the M60 in Somalia.
The Italian tanks were solid green and the Pakistani tanks were in three colour NATO cam.
You have to remember that the missions changed in Somalia from UNITAF to UNOSOM I and then to UNOSOM II....during these missions the traditional white painted vehicles with UN markings were filtered out and replaced by vehicles in regular paint schemes without UN markings.
Don't rely on Blackhawk Down for accuracy of the Pakistani tanks.
The Italian tanks were solid green and the Pakistani tanks were in three colour NATO cam.
You have to remember that the missions changed in Somalia from UNITAF to UNOSOM I and then to UNOSOM II....during these missions the traditional white painted vehicles with UN markings were filtered out and replaced by vehicles in regular paint schemes without UN markings.
Don't rely on Blackhawk Down for accuracy of the Pakistani tanks.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 01:42 AM UTC
I just used the movie for inspiration and they got the M60s right.
Keef1648
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,240 posts
Armorama: 1,192 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 02:28 AM UTC
Although the member nations supply the vehicles and men (troops and crews) once they (vehicles) are repainted (White) and carry the UN letters and flag they come under command and control of the United Nations Secretary General and the General Assembly.
This is the same for the troops once they change head gear and badges.
I had to return to the UK from a deplyment in Cyprus due to a family terminall illness but not before permission was obtained and granted by the UN HQ in the USA.
I reverted (changed uniform and badges) to once again come under control of the British Ministry of Defence, who arranged my transportation and flights home.
Once back on the Island I again changed uniforms and badges came under command and control of the UN.
Keith.
This is the same for the troops once they change head gear and badges.
I had to return to the UK from a deplyment in Cyprus due to a family terminall illness but not before permission was obtained and granted by the UN HQ in the USA.
I reverted (changed uniform and badges) to once again come under control of the British Ministry of Defence, who arranged my transportation and flights home.
Once back on the Island I again changed uniforms and badges came under command and control of the UN.
Keith.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 03:44 AM UTC
Keith: Thank you. I have seen photos of several vehicles that were not white, but proclaimed to be part of a UN peace keeping mission.
I've ordered the Revell M60A3 along with barrel and UN decals.
I've ordered the Revell M60A3 along with barrel and UN decals.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 04:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Keith: Thank you. I have seen photos of several vehicles that were not white, but proclaimed to be part of a UN peace keeping mission.
I've ordered the Revell M60A3 along with barrel and UN decals.
Are you going to build it as one of the Jordanian white painted tanks in the Balkans?
The Pakistani tanks in Somalia has no UN markings at all on them from the various images I have seen.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 04:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextKeith: Thank you. I have seen photos of several vehicles that were not white, but proclaimed to be part of a UN peace keeping mission.
I've ordered the Revell M60A3 along with barrel and UN decals.
Are you going to build it as one of the Jordanian white painted tanks in the Balkans?
The Pakistani tanks in Somalia has no UN markings at all on them from the various images I have seen.
What images are you referring to?
AKirchhoff
Joined: September 12, 2008
KitMaker: 307 posts
Armorama: 304 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 08:13 AM UTC
Hi!
In Paul Malmassari´s book on armoured vehicles of UN missions there are 2 or 3 pictures of M60 A3 TTS (when I remember it right, do not have the book in hands right now) in white colour with UN markings. I don´t remember the state operating them or the theatre. Would have to look it up next week. One of these M60 has a UDK-1 dozer blade fitted which looks quite interesting.
Andreas
In Paul Malmassari´s book on armoured vehicles of UN missions there are 2 or 3 pictures of M60 A3 TTS (when I remember it right, do not have the book in hands right now) in white colour with UN markings. I don´t remember the state operating them or the theatre. Would have to look it up next week. One of these M60 has a UDK-1 dozer blade fitted which looks quite interesting.
Andreas
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 08:45 AM UTC
I may look into the dozer.
flugwuzzi
Joined: November 02, 2007
KitMaker: 633 posts
Armorama: 599 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 08:59 AM UTC
Hi Matt,
on nbcnews you can see a nice picture of a Pakistani Tank used in Somalia.
http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/01/26/5924467-photos-from-the-archive-somalis-mark-20-years-of-war-after-government-fell?lite
I havent seen a pic of a white painted M60 used in Somalia yet.
To find some other images of the Pakistani UN Tanks go to www.gettyimages.com and search for the photographer combined with Mogadischu "Alexander Joe Mogadischu".
If you want to build a white "hollywood" model M60 it´s totally ok - have fun with it ;-)
I´m currently building the white UN M60A3TTS used by Jordan Force with UNTAES on the Balkans. I use the DEF Model Kit in 1/35 which has nice upgrades in the box.
http://s630.photobucket.com/user/flugwuzzi/media/P1040809_zpsec84f136.jpg.html
http://s630.photobucket.com/user/flugwuzzi/media/P1040812_zpsac024c16.jpg.html
Here are some images of the Jordan M60A3TTS from Tor H. Berland, who served at that time on the Balkans.
http://home.online.no/~torhberl/JordanStridsvogn_Vinkovci260496.jpg
cheers
Walter
on nbcnews you can see a nice picture of a Pakistani Tank used in Somalia.
http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/01/26/5924467-photos-from-the-archive-somalis-mark-20-years-of-war-after-government-fell?lite
I havent seen a pic of a white painted M60 used in Somalia yet.
To find some other images of the Pakistani UN Tanks go to www.gettyimages.com and search for the photographer combined with Mogadischu "Alexander Joe Mogadischu".
If you want to build a white "hollywood" model M60 it´s totally ok - have fun with it ;-)
I´m currently building the white UN M60A3TTS used by Jordan Force with UNTAES on the Balkans. I use the DEF Model Kit in 1/35 which has nice upgrades in the box.
http://s630.photobucket.com/user/flugwuzzi/media/P1040809_zpsec84f136.jpg.html
http://s630.photobucket.com/user/flugwuzzi/media/P1040812_zpsac024c16.jpg.html
Here are some images of the Jordan M60A3TTS from Tor H. Berland, who served at that time on the Balkans.
http://home.online.no/~torhberl/JordanStridsvogn_Vinkovci260496.jpg
cheers
Walter
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 09:04 AM UTC
Thank you Walter. Unfortunately, the search for Alexander Joe Mogadishu failed to return any results. I believe that the tanks in the photos may be Pakistani, but not employed by the UN at that time.
Does anybody know of a donor kit I can pirate the UDK-1 dozer blade from?
Does anybody know of a donor kit I can pirate the UDK-1 dozer blade from?
flugwuzzi
Joined: November 02, 2007
KitMaker: 633 posts
Armorama: 599 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 09:09 AM UTC
Hi Matt,
try this image numbers in the search field of gettyimages.com
#51970773
#147105496
#147105994
cheers
Walter
try this image numbers in the search field of gettyimages.com
#51970773
#147105496
#147105994
cheers
Walter
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 09:13 AM UTC
The first two photos are of US tanks. The last photo is of a Pakistani tank leaving Somalia. It would have been repainted, before it left for shipping back to Pakistan.
flugwuzzi
Joined: November 02, 2007
KitMaker: 633 posts
Armorama: 599 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 09:47 AM UTC
Matt, you´re right. There are 2 us tanks and one pakaistani.
Got a mess in my references, try to sort them out ... found also italian m60 in somalia ;-)
cheers
Walter
Got a mess in my references, try to sort them out ... found also italian m60 in somalia ;-)
cheers
Walter
Keef1648
Joined: January 23, 2008
KitMaker: 1,240 posts
Armorama: 1,192 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 10:47 AM UTC
In 1993, 10 were shipped from the USA to Somalia for use by Italian troops operating as part of United Nations forces.
They were allover Green.
Unless the vehicles are to remain in or under UN Command and control for an extended period of time, AFV's may not be painted White but will fly a small UN flag or pennant on the antenna, you may also find a small peel and stick UN flag stuck to the turret sides.
I believe the Italians in Somalia did just that.
Keith...
They were allover Green.
Unless the vehicles are to remain in or under UN Command and control for an extended period of time, AFV's may not be painted White but will fly a small UN flag or pennant on the antenna, you may also find a small peel and stick UN flag stuck to the turret sides.
I believe the Italians in Somalia did just that.
Keith...
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 11:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextKeith: Thank you. I have seen photos of several vehicles that were not white, but proclaimed to be part of a UN peace keeping mission.
I've ordered the Revell M60A3 along with barrel and UN decals.
Are you going to build it as one of the Jordanian white painted tanks in the Balkans?
The Pakistani tanks in Somalia has no UN markings at all on them from the various images I have seen.
What images are you referring to?
Go to Getty Images.com....ensure Editorial images is checked for the search....search for "Pakistani Somalia"...a few great pics of the Pakistani M60A3s showing the markings and the three colour NATO cam as I described in my previous posts....no UN markings or UN flag.
LeoCmdr
Joined: January 19, 2005
KitMaker: 4,085 posts
Armorama: 3,917 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 11:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In 1993, 10 were shipped from the USA to Somalia for use by Italian troops operating as part of United Nations forces.
They were allover Green.
Unless the vehicles are to remain in or under UN Command and control for an extended period of time, AFV's may not be painted White but will fly a small UN flag or pennant on the antenna, you may also find a small peel and stick UN flag stuck to the turret sides.
I believe the Italians in Somalia did just that.
Keith...
Those additional tanks used by Italy were USMC M60A1 RISE ERA versions that were provided to Italy in order to supplement the Italian M60A1s already in Somalia. The ERA was obviously to provide additional protection for the crews against RPG attacks.
UNOSOM II was a UN sanctioned mission...but not a UN led mission...very few vehicles carried a UN flag or UN markings. during UNOSOM II...those that did were left over from UNOSOM I...the monitoring mission that failed and led to UNITAF (a U.S. led mission with wide use of force options structured for direct intervention against the militias) and then UNOSOM II...the final intervention and stabilization mission that was not as successful as it could have been as a result of much infighting between participating nations on how the mission should be conducted.
Somalia was far from a Peace Keeping mission and it takes a bit to understand the UN Resolution and the actual mission of the troops on the ground...i.e...offensive combat operations do not constitute UN Peace Keeping.
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.