Eddy, thanks for your comments, and as to your questions...


No, the wheels were constructed without glue, with the exception of seating the tracks closely around the sprockets with CA glue. I think it might be possible to remove the outer wheels for painting purposes, but notice in the photo further up, how these outer wheels also help attach and keep in place the tracks; so I wonder if it might be slightly risky in that it could disrupt their alignment - although it might not. From my own point of view, I have a few braille kits in various stages of completion, and would like to paint them with the tracks on, so I wanted to practice it here as I am convinced this is the way to go but haven't had much experience of it.

The tracks were sprayed with a mixture of Tamiya XF-52 Flat Earth and XF-69 NATO Black, and the wash was, I think, just very thinned Humbrol matt black. Actually, this created a bit of a problem in that I think the white spirit thinners slightly stressed the tracks. As with the similar styrene tracks that are used in the MPK Modellbau kits, the "joins" between the individual links are very thin, and the track
cracked just at the point under the last outer roadwheel on the right hand side - that's on the left of the second picture up in the post immediately above - and started to kind of uncurl itself from the idler. I had to use CA glue to re-join it.

Notice that I am taking my lead directly from Mig's FAQ on this part of the build (yes, I know he says it's obsolete, so let's call it a nostalgia trip... ) and you can see his track colour was a slightly paler brown, I wanted a greyer, darker look.



In fact that isn't to protect the detail from damage from the clamp, and you're right, the clamps are normally too harsh to use on anything with fine detail - so I only use them when it is something pretty flat, as is the case with the nose and underside of this Panther; anyway, it's blue tack and is in fact there to stop the clamp from sliding off the smooth shiny angled front of this tank - it's just enough to hold it in place.

So, I went to work to on that nose joint, including trying to obtain the characteristic welded joints. Then I masked off all of the tracks and wheels and touched up the primer, then sprayed overall with Tamiya Dark Yellow.





Then camouflage was sprayed on - I must admit I kind of look forward to doing this, and then get all nervous while actually doing it. I can spray fine on to my piece of test card, but when trying to spray on to the model, nothing comes out. This was made worse by my forgetting the need (in my view) to add a retarder to the Vallejo Model Air, with the result that at first, the acrylic paint sets on the needle / nozzle, so that you start to get bubbles backing up in the bowl. So, I emptied it all out, cleaned it, then re-filled the cup with 1 drop of Liquitex retarder to each 4 drops of the Model Air, after which it was fine. After the green, a little brown was added, sparingly, just
underlining a few of the green lines.
I think that the spray is a little unsubtle at this scale, in that even the finest edged spray looks a little out of scale; I had two bottles of Dark Yellow, one of which was very very thinned down with Tamiya thinners, but I had forgotten that it was the case. I accidentally used it to touch up a little green overspray around the turret rear hatch, and found that it actually had the effect of softening the sprayed camouflage stripes and making them look a bit more subdued and a little finer in appearance. So, some unhappy accidents, and a happier one.
Obviously this can all be re-touched a bit more when I remove the masking in order to add a little camouflage to the wheels.







Yes, I forgot... I used a quick coat of hairspray before the camouflage patches went on. This was to enable a few small chips / scratches here and there, which you can just about see, for example on the hatch edge. Oddly, it also produced the slightly discoloured, rough look to the Dark Yellow, which in the photos can be seen particularly on the side of the turret. At first I was a bit aghast, but then decided it kind of looked OK, so I'm living with it. Seemed to me that the Yellow was very matt which often seems to mean that it is slightly absorbent and hence susceptible to staining.

Another edit... ahem, also you might be able to see a bit of er... (bites lip) colour modulation going on.

Matthew,

You're Panther is progressing very nicely and I personally find the colouring most attractive. These camo schemes were most often applied in less than ideal circumstances and many pictures from the era will attest to that (fading, uneven spray etc).




A variation of your track colouring is what I use and it in turn is a slight variation of what is suggested in the Alex Clark book. In my case I would have used either the NATO Black or in some cases Flat Black for the wash. As these were all metal tracks there is some place also for XF-56 Metallic Grey. There is rarely, if ever, any issues with the reaction of acrylic paints on plastic but with the increased use of recycled content in some manufacturers styrene, one must be careful with enamels and their solvents.




As you state, the retarder is most important when spraying in this scale. Vallejo paints are not common anywhere near me so I rely on Tamiya and Modelmaster Acryl. With these two brands I use a drop of retarder to 8-10 drops of paint. The paint is also generally thinned to the "thickness" of skim milk. Also vitally important is air pressure. Too high and a thinned paint will splatter or pool and especially acrylics (even with some retarder) will dry as they fly through the air. The result of the latter most case will be a finish that will flake off or scratch with even a light pressure. For these types of schemes I generally try to spray at around 15 psi. Also, I find that one can use thinned out paint with a brush to decrease the feathering of your "stripes."

Just remember that experimentation is the spice of life! You are as likely to discover a new and better way achieving an effect as rediscovering a old one. Btw, did I mention I really like the way this is turning out!

Cheers,
Jan

A great build so far. I am going to check out this Zvezda kit with a distinct possibility of adding it to my stash.

Jan, I agree with the use of retarder. Previously, I would not spray Vallejo through my airbrush as it would dry in the airbrush and cause serious cleaning issues. Add a drop of retarder all all becomes very easy.


I experimented with two drops but the paint took several hours to dry. (My recent Merkava III build). One drop is the magic amount for me at least.

@firstcircle – Matthew,

Thanks for the reply to my many questions. Once the paint is applied over the bare plastic you could easily see how well defined the molded on detail is on this kit. The aftermarket items have also helped immensely, especially the photo-etched screens over the air intake and exhaust openings on the rear deck.

The colors you selected for the camouflage scheme and your airbrushing looks very promising considering you’ve yet to weather the finish. And yes you could see a subtle amount of modulation taking place there!

~ Eddy

Very interesting Matthew. When I saw the joined whels, I thought "there is a reason I dont build 1/72" ... but the ingenious way the tracks are angineered and are placed, I can why this would be a popular kit. The update sets adds a lot though.

Frank:

I agree that this is very well done and in a sense does away with what can otherwise be quite awkward / lengthy construction on models of these tanks with the interleaved wheels; of course the side effect is what I have said about having to do the painting of the wheels and tracks after assembly, though as I mentioned I wanted to try this method out in any case.

Agreed that the grilles on the engine deck especially definitely add something to the model, and thanks to Michael, Eddy and Jan for good feedback - however, there's some bad news...
I took the masking off the tracks and all was fine with that, so I proceeded to a pin wash; after thinking about trying to do it with acrylic, I kind of bottled out and played safe (so I thought) and did it with enamel (Humbrol Dark Earth + M67 grey). Seemed OK, satin varnish I had sealed the base coat with wasn't very shiny satin though, more matt satin, so there was a bit of spreading, but not too bad; completed the body, then moved to the turret. Had worked from the back to the front of the turret, then noticed, while cleaning up some of the over spread paint, what I thought was a brush hair - but as I tried to blow it away I saw that it was a crack... the mantlet has actually split. I had the issue where the track came apart under the stress of the white spirit, but I'd assumed that this was just because the tracks were so thin... but assumed wrongly it now turns out.

So I'm left wondering what to do with that - I'll post some photos soon, but it is right on the top in the middle, a vertical crack from the top edge down to the start of bulge around the hole the gun pokes through. Overnight it has actually closed up a little, but is about 0.2mm widest and 4mm long so quite noticeable. I guess I either try to remove the mantlet assembly from the turret, glue, sand and repaint it, or commit the terrible modelling sin of disguising it with one of potentially three things - foliage, a turret air identification flag, or some crew man sitting there with his butt on top of the crack (probably won't be big enough though...).

[b]@Matthew{/b],

If, I perceive this correctly, a .2 mm gap at the widest equals less than .008". This seems like the perfect case for a gap filling CA glue that both myself and Eddy N.(Braille) have used to tackle unruly seams.

cheers,
Jan

Jan, if repairing it I was thinking of putting liquid glue inside then clamping the sides together, as the crack really needs closing rather than filling since you can see the mantlet is no longer quite straight - it's subtly bent in fact. As you can see below. Photos also show the masks off the wheels, the dark pin wash on the body and the sepia acrylic wash on the wheels.





Looking at this again, I remember the struggle to get the turret rear decals on over / around / under the open hatch... sort of looks OK, though I think the middle 3 is a bit taller than it should be.

You're right, it is a molding defect. It looks as if the injection mold or the plastic wasn't at the proper temperature for a shot, so the plastic coming in through the different feed points was cool enough to partially solidify, creating a seam line instead of melding together. A friend of mine used to run an injection-molding machine making optical test cells for biochemical testing machines, and that type of defect was what he got when the plastic wasn't up to the correct temperature.

...and now you've mentioned that, I notice that the crack on the mantlet runs from the sprue attachment point.

.

Seeing the picture of the turret front greatly aids in understanding the situation better. I can also see now the bit of "bending" to which you refer. In my case I would probably use the Tamiya Extra Thin or similar solvent glue and indeed clamp it with the appropriate type of clamp. To be on the safe side I'd first apply the glue to the crack as it stands, let it soften the plastic and then clamp it. Let that sit clamped for a bit of time (determined by the glue you used) and then apply more solvent glue to the area and let that sit overnight. Having done similar "repairs" in the past you may get a slight ridge over the crack but, that should be fairly easy to remove. Then it just the hassle of repairing the paint job. Good luck!

Cheers,
Jan

@firstcircle – Matthew,

Yes, you have quite the cracky situation there! But all is not lost. First off ‘srmalloy’ is correct about the plastic molding as I’ve had this happen on a number of builds in the past. This splitting thing usually happened on older produced kits (early 60’s). I’m talking about those cheap kits that I would find at my neighborhood corner liquor store for around a quarter (my weeks allowance for buying milk at first recess). Obviously the manufactures were not that concerned with the quality of the plastic used in making these kits nor holding a quality standard, just produce as many as you can as fast as you can and get them out to Eddy, hihi! I built plenty of these types of kits in my younger years and learned a great deal about what types of glues, thinners and paints not to use with them. Because I couldn’t afford to just throw the kit away I learned how to repair them and what to look for during the build to keep those cracks at bay. Surprisingly I haven’t seen this kind of thing happen with any of the newer produced kits! At least not until it happened on your kit.

What I did learn was not to have tight fitting parts or any snapping together of parts. The plastic would not hold up and crack, most of the time you couldn’t see the crack until after painting where the paint would force the crack to appear as it cured tight to the surface of the plastic. That’s right; I believe you already know that paint shrinks as it dries. In your case if the main gun barrel was slightly squeezed fitted to the mantle or the mantle happened to fit tight to the front of the turret or a combination of the two things, which would do the trick, especially if the manufacture is using inferior plastic to produce these kits. My suggestion would be to separate the mantle from all the mating parts and rework the crack.

Yes, just as Jan has mentioned Super glue would be the best filler in this case as it acts just like plastic and can easily be sanded leaving no sign of the crack. Just make sure you sand the glue within two hours of applying it, after two hours the glue becomes harder than the plastic making it difficult to sand. Trim as much glue away with a hobby knife before sanding. Do not spray the accelerator to set the glue because some plastics won’t take the sudden temperature change during the curing process (which only takes a few moments). Better yet use a micro-brush and place a very thin amount of accelerator next to the glue and allow it to flow over to the glue. One good sized drop of accelerator coming out of a spray bottle on the glue and it may and can shatter, crystalize, form a foam bubble or a sink hole or any combination of these on the glue leaving you with more rework. You could leave the area painted during the rework but remember to wash that area with soap and water before repainting. The super glue won’t shrink after curing and can be immediately sanded after the accelerator has setup the glue (about two or three minutes depending on the humidity in your area). Since you’re doing a little modulation the paint won’t have to match exactly! So let's get cracka'lacking, good luck!

~ Eddy

Eddy, I must admit I hadn't considered the thing about the paint shrinking, but I think you are correct about the tight fit of this part putting it under some stress, plus of course that is quite a thin part of the component. I did exactly what you suggested and disassembled the parts - whether the lack of glue is what allowed the ingress of the thinner into the joint in the first place, it is what allowed the parts to be easily dismantled:



Humbrol Poly70 was run into the crack and then the mantlet was clamped to a steel rule to ensure that it set dead flat and the gap completely closed:


After sanding and airbrushing it really does seem to have disappeared

So, back to what should have been happening, painting the tools:

Started on the Das clay base, copied from the Plasticine one that was made earlier, tank pressed into it for fit. Tools are on and the exhausts rusty. Rest of the tank still needs to be weathered up to match.

Two of the Caesar figures, the commander cut in half for insertion into the hatch, primed then painted:



The grumpy looking one chopped in half and glued into the back of the turret, looking out through the hatch:

@firstcircle - Matthew,

Super job on repairing the crack. It appears that you were able to disassemble the mantlet quite readily (another plus for this kit). The separate tools are yet another nice feature compared to other manufacturers. Those figures you have look excellent and I can only wish they were available at a fair cost in my area. BTW, as I know little about them, are they resin or styrene? I await with anticipation the next update.

Cheers,
Jan

@firstcircle – Matthew,

Good to see you’ve taken care of that crack in the mantle. The vehicle looks outstanding even without the turret, which will just add to the excitement once it’s set in place! Those tools do look well detailed especially the fire extinguisher.

The figures look very well molded and are nicely posed; even if you did have to cut the one fellow in half, he will make a great addition to the vehicle and add life and scale. First time seeing anyone place a figure looking out the rear turret hatch, how comfortable and cool is that?

Matthew, I noticed that the base color on the road wheels does not match up with the base color on the vehicle. Am I just seeing things or is it just because of the lighting?

~ Eddy

Jan, they appear to be some kind of hard polythene, so a bit like the old Airfix figures, but not that soft, yet not hard like styrene. As a result, cleaning them up is a bit harder than with styrene, and indeed you can see a few lines on mine; not too easy to sand or file, leaves you with trying to carve off seams with a very sharp knife, trying to avoid kicking up any fluffy bits.
I had a quick look on US Ebay and it appears that there's some people selling Caesar from within the USA (yes, I know you don't live there exactly, but whatever... ) and even those selling from Taiwan, it seems can be had for $11-12 US including postage, so maybe worth a try.



Eddy, the paint used is the same on both, but I've maybe gone about things in a slightly odd way, in that the wheels have received a sepia wash already, while the hull hasn't; also the wheels haven't had any camo applied to them; plus I think it might also be the lighting to an extent. As you can see from the clay base, I'm intending that the rear wheels especially are sunk quite some way into the base, and this bottom part will, I hope, be a shallow stream that the tank is galumphing through, hence the muddy water will need to be reflected in further weathering once on the base.

Hope I know what I'm doing... well, I don't actually.

Ah, so it sounds like it might be something similar to the "glue-able" plastic that Zvezda uses for their figures or perhaps some of the more recent Italeri ones. Both these "Brands" seem to take paint much better than the old Airfix or Matchbox figures. That is...these last two seem to have the paint start flaking off as soon as it thoroughly dry.




Thanks for taking the time to check these out but I've already found at least one Canadian shop that carries them. Unfortunately it's a couple of thousand miles away in Alberta. Their price was good ($10.62 with no taxes) BUT shipping is $10.50! The set they sell is the HB03 with 11 figures. I do have some Preizer crew figures and they were close to double the cost. I'll inquire with my LHS if they might be able to get the Caesar ones.

Cheers,
Jan

Jan:

At that price, maybe it really is cheaper getting them from Taiwan on ebay! However, as you suggest, and as we sometimes forget, LHS may well have connections with relevant distributors, and Caesar aren't exactly "niche" like some resin producers.

On the paint flaking off, that doesn't seem to happen with these figures, at least painted with acrylics, though I think I have chipped the commander's elbow a little as I wrestled him into the turret hatch, mostly while trying to force his arm into contact with the cupola for long enough for the super glue to set.


Him and his comrade (the one with the slightly over sized head) in the back of the turret were held in place with Araldite epoxy due to the lack of any real connection surface. I'll touch up and hopefully improve the painting on his face a bit later. Maybe.


The base - I built a styrene box to enclose it and filled the gaps with acrylic paste (should have built the box first, then just filled it with clay), masked the box, then coated it with acrylic resin and stuck a load of pulverised back garden soil on it. The shallow end is going to be a small stream.


Primed it with black then airbrushed with various browns.


The stressful bit of sticking the tank into the base - because there's no going back. Note where the track is below the level of the ground.


The various gaps were filled first with more acrylic paste, then because that shrinks a little and takes a while to dry, I wanted something that would definitely fill the gaps around the rear wheels and that would preferably set quickly, and wouldn't be too messy in application - and found the Plastic Padding Leak Fix in the back of the drawer, which is even a muddy brown colour and has a kind of muddy texture, and sets in a few minutes. It's styrene monomer and has a great smell (probably poisonous). So after that and a bit more painting, and then the start of the mud application:

The other side hasn't had any mud treatment on the wheels yet:


Front and back views below - I quite like the little dip behind the tracks where the acrylic paste shrank down a bit. I'm planning to give this a few coats of gloss acrylic resin to try to get a muddy watery look, maybe darkening down this area again to make it more like water. Also planning to add grass to the bank. Still not sure what I'm doing, but it's kind of how I wanted it to look, I think.
Opinions and advice welcome.

Matthew,

I haven't been to the LHS since my last comment so I didn't get the chance to inquire. However, I asked a local club member who has a few of these figures and he stated that they generally can get a few sets but cannot guarantee what's available. The last he bought from them was around $15.00.

As for the paint flaking, it sounds like this might be a version of what Zvezda uses for their figures, I've painted them with acrylics and so far the paint has held up well. BTW, did I mention that you've done a superb job on detail painting your figures.

The base is coming along fabulously and from your past ones I'd expect this to be no different, if not a step up. Unfortunately my bases hardly compare. Just take your time and approach the base in a step by step manner. It's still a bit early to comment but I somewhat foresee you achieving something similar to Daniel S with his BMP-T.

Cheers,
Jan

This kit looks really great and you've done a super job on the painting. I'll definitely keep my eye out for it as it looks about my speed. I also love the figure painting and guess that they are a bit glossy as they're not totally finished. The base you're making is coming along well and I can see like it'll be quite impressive when done.

Regards,
AJ

Jan and AJB, thanks very much for the compliment on the figure painting; I think I did OK, though not as perfect as I'd like. It's noticeable in the photo how the pink collar patch on the right is a kind of rectangle, but I just couldn't reproduce that on the left even after about 10 attempts! Possibly the moulding just wasn't quite as flat on that side or something, or maybe I was just lucky with the first one.

On the glossiness, don't worry about mentioning it AJB, in fact I had to write that post twice as my PC blanked out half way through, and originally I had written about having specially acquired some Testors Dulcote for the task of matting these down, having heard that it is the one and only sure solution for this kind of thing. I'll also do some touching up of them once the turret is in one piece and has been weathered to match the tank body.

More worrying perhaps is Jan's comment about

I can only hope that I will be able to come even close to what he achieved with that base. I must say when I looked at his photos I recognised the similarity with what I am trying to do, and shuddered at the challenge of getting into the same ball park, as it were. Frankly, his later comment about the water being a bit of a problem was not a reassurance. I have been wondering whether I need to obtain some of this type of water effect material for what I am aiming for, but am aware that my base should have more of a ripply splashy look which may make these types of substances less appropriate. I have been doing a few trials with acrylic gloss mediums - I don't need a flat or a transparent look, but it does need to look watery.



Jan, a very perceptive comment, I expect you are thinking of the pull between "finishing up" and taking time at this stage of a build like this, and the latter is indeed what I am trying to keep in mind.
Thanks for the encouragement.

@Matthew,




I have heard and read many praises about Dullcote but have had little to bordering on no luck using it. I have tried it on and off for a couple of decades, both the spray version and from the bottle, and believe that it just doesn't like me. At best I get a slight semi-gloss result on flat paint and at worst a kind of white "fogging" here and there. Here's what I mean from earlier in my T-80B build.



The above was done with the aerosol can after about 12 minutes of mixing/shaking and this was one of the better results. Perhaps it doesn't work as well with my acrylics but this is just conjecture on my part. My preferred flat coat currently is Model Master Acryl #4636 Flat Clear Acryl. Even it requires a thorough mixing and thinning for airbrushing but usually results in an 80+% success rate as opposed to 20% for Dulcote.




As you might well know, I've been prone to be mired down on a build while trying to make the most appropriate decision during it so I'm no stranger to your current dilemma. However, the key word in my comment is similar and by no means the same. Perhaps look at the current state of the base and review your options.

-Do you really want or envision water?
-With the rear of the tank being as it is it suggests that it's digging itself in somehow. In that case, wouldn't there be more "debris" piled up behind the tracks in the rear?
-If it is mud, how would it distribute along the hull and track sides?

I hope you don't mind but I've taken the liberty of modifying the image for use as a reference image.



THe compass "rose" is for reference position and the light blue at the back of the track depressions is where I would guess a material build-up would occur. I won't comment further as I appreciate that this is still in progress and you have your own thoughts on where it might go.




My pleasure Matthew, now if only I could finalize the base for my Dragon Panther D.

Cheers,
Jan

@firstcircle – Matthew,

This build has taken a turn in the right direction since I last dropped in. Your figures look great, especially how their posed. You’ve got an interesting scene taking shape here, interested in seeing your take on creating wet effects on your ground work and vehicle. You could already see the transition from the muddied area at the rear of the base to the drier ground at the front of the base, looks very convincing. You’ve also got a little mud happening on the lower front armor plate, nice!

~ Eddy

Thanks for comments and advice Eddy, Jan - things have now moved on quite a bit...

I thought I had taken some more photos of in between stages, but it seems I didn't - and after being on holiday my memory is a little vague... so I did go for water, which after lots of umming and ahhing I just made with some Liquitex Gloss Medium, poured on in several thin layers. It doesn't self level and I didn't try to much to sculpt in any ripples, but to me it looks about right - the water shouldn't be dead flat, but also shouldn't be splashing around too much as the tracks themselves are mostly stationery, just moving at the idler where they are pulled up out of the water. I mixed Burnt Umber into each layer then finished with a clear thin layer. When giving the tank a bit of a dusting with very thinned Tamiya dark yellow I accidentally discovered (through carelessness) that a slight dusting of this on to the water just took enough of the glossy shine off and somehow increased the
translucent look. So, it's not perfect water, but I'm fairly pleased with how it turned out.

On return from holiday, I felt very out of practice and didn't want to do too much more fiddling with the finish of the tank itself, and in the end I went a bit mad and just finished it off over two days - started by applying the mud, in two layers with slightly different colours of pigment, done by sprinkling on with a brush then dropping on Tamiya thinner with the micro dropper. Left to dry
overnight. Added lots of grass, The Army Painter's Swamp Tuft, which handily is self-adhesive, just a few bits needing some helping superglue at the edges. Put some thinned Liquitex Gloss Medim in the airbrush and applied a bit of a wet look to some of the mud on the tracks, a little on the nose, and the wheels and rear - also on to the gravelly water / ground transition. Then a very small amount of slightly paler pigment around some areas of the mud. Probably could have done more in terms of dry mud and dirt underneath - but then again, perhaps it's better - I hate this bit when you're not sure when to stop!!

The glossy figures - didn't use the Dulcote in the end, but just Vallejo Satin varnish which looks fine to me, and went on very easily through the airbrush. Figures look a little tatty under big magnification, but not bad in real life. Only thing missing - I think - is the aerial. Finally pulled all the masking tape off the base, cut away some that had been buried in groundwork and was quite surprised to see it looking quite neat underneath. So, there we are.

PS, I was far too lazy to bother painting the grass, it's just as it came out of the packet - should I? I quite like the mixed greens and browns, and thought I maybe couldn't improve on it.

@firstcircle – Mattherw,

Fist rate build!

The photo-shoot showing the rear of the vehicle coming out of the water looks terrific. I especially like how realistic the water looks around the tracks, the water appears to be getting sucked down where the tracks have created a void due to the weight of the vehicle . . . awesome, just awesome. Also like the wet affects around the front of the vehicle and running gear. The sixth photograph from the top really captures that ‘in action’ scene for me and in MHO is what should have appeared on the kits box art (although the box art is not bad seeing what you could render with the actual kit is better).

Well worth the extra effort and expense of having added the aftermarket goodies and modified crew figures. Excellent camouflage scheme, realistic looking spare tracks, weathering and amazing base to add that final eye-candy to what could easily be mistaken for a much larger scale build!

This was a fun, interesting and informative build log for me, so thanks to you and everyone that posted comments. Great set of photographs and commentary, hope to be seeing more of your work!

So what next on the menu . . .
~ Eddy