The first picture is of an M1151A1 and it appears to have the B-kit installed, but with the perimeter doors instead of the B-kit doors. There's some debate between the sources about whether the factory B-kit is standard with these doors and only the US Army's LTAS B-kit actually has the Frag 5-like doors.
The second picture is also of an M1151A1, but with the Frag 1, Frag 2, and Frag 5 kits in lieu of the appropriate B-kit components.
I have seen the third picture before but I had never noticed the additional plate on the roof. No idea about whether that's part of the Frag 7 kit. The vehicle in question, however, is a straight M1151, so the armored roof itself is definitely an add-on as well whatever the case.
Here are links to two pictures of straight, baseline M1151A1s for comparison: Picture 1 and Picture 2
Hosted by Darren Baker
M1165 vs M1151
Thatguy
Joined: November 09, 2008
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Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 - 08:22 AM UTC
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
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Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 - 09:19 AM UTC
Yes I did not notice the belly plates on the first picture.
As of the second one, how do I know that this is A1? I see no difference...
Thanks a lot!
Adam
As of the second one, how do I know that this is A1? I see no difference...
Thanks a lot!
Adam
hliu24
Joined: November 19, 2010
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Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 - 09:39 AM UTC
Haha, you are digging into it all the way !!! 
Jay
Jay
Thatguy
Joined: November 09, 2008
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Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 - 10:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes I did not notice the belly plates on the first picture.
As of the second one, how do I know that this is A1? I see no difference...
Thanks a lot!
Adam
The A1's are standard with the IAP, even though this is sometimes substituted for the relevant Frag kits. However, the IAP includes the lower windscreen deflector armor (that bar at the base of the windshield) and this is always present even if the Frag kits are substituted. That bar becomes the easiest way of picking out M1151A1s from standard M1151s.
kubisz
Joined: February 18, 2007
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Posted: Monday, June 10, 2013 - 09:58 PM UTC
Great thread, now many things are more clear for me 
But I've got two questions. English is not my native language too, and although I've read all posts here with attention, not everything is for sure to me.
1) Front window frames. On these photos there are two different ones:
.jpg)
Have they any "names" (Frag numbers)? Which one is proper for M1151, M1151A1 or M1151A1 w/B1?
2) What is this?:
But I've got two questions. English is not my native language too, and although I've read all posts here with attention, not everything is for sure to me.1) Front window frames. On these photos there are two different ones:
Have they any "names" (Frag numbers)? Which one is proper for M1151, M1151A1 or M1151A1 w/B1?
2) What is this?:
Thatguy
Joined: November 09, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 12:27 AM UTC
The M1151A1 in the first picture has the VEE windshield, while it appears that the M1151 in the second picture does not. The highlighted part in the second picture should be part of the Frag 1 kit.
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 12:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextYes I did not notice the belly plates on the first picture.
As of the second one, how do I know that this is A1? I see no difference...
Thanks a lot!
Adam
That bar becomes the easiest way of picking out M1151A1s from standard M1151s.
I see. Thanks! I will check photos back at home, I do not seem to recall any picture withouth this bar. Except for the ones with VEE but that is another case. Do you have a picture of M1151 without VEE?
Cheers,
Adam
Thatguy
Joined: November 09, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 04:03 AM UTC
No, but I don't think I've seen a lot of garrison shots of M1151s either. You'll note the two pictures I linked to at the top of this page show M1151A1s without the VEE windshield.
Also, @Kuba, I was wrong earlier. Both of the vehicles in question have the VEE windshield. The green one just has the B-kit fitted, which includes perimeter overlays around both the doors and the front windshield. What you're seeing is the additional overlay around the windshield on the M1151A1. Oddly enough the vehicle doesn't appear to have the perimeter overlays around the A-, B-, and C-pillars.
Basically, what you're seeing in all of this is that the interim Frag kits were intended to be modular and the standardized LTAS A/B-kit setup was supposed to further reinforce this. You can basically apply as much or as little armor as you feel you need.
Also, @Kuba, I was wrong earlier. Both of the vehicles in question have the VEE windshield. The green one just has the B-kit fitted, which includes perimeter overlays around both the doors and the front windshield. What you're seeing is the additional overlay around the windshield on the M1151A1. Oddly enough the vehicle doesn't appear to have the perimeter overlays around the A-, B-, and C-pillars.
Basically, what you're seeing in all of this is that the interim Frag kits were intended to be modular and the standardized LTAS A/B-kit setup was supposed to further reinforce this. You can basically apply as much or as little armor as you feel you need.
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 09:56 AM UTC
I have not seen any M1151s without the deflector that you have picked as the difference between M1151 and M1151A1. It looks like all of them have either a)factory windshield with deflector or b) VEE.
I think the main difference is the IAP, esepcially the belly aromur. Even if it is detached, the difference is visible: the number of the srews is different under and around the doors - A1s have more.
Furhtermore I have checked the manuals and it looks like the integrated IED overlay kit for the A1 version is quite different in shape and size (compared to Frag 1), it looks thinner in general, for example the rocker panel armour.
I think the best ide is to forget about denominations and build according to a picture.
Cheers,
Adam
I think the main difference is the IAP, esepcially the belly aromur. Even if it is detached, the difference is visible: the number of the srews is different under and around the doors - A1s have more.
Furhtermore I have checked the manuals and it looks like the integrated IED overlay kit for the A1 version is quite different in shape and size (compared to Frag 1), it looks thinner in general, for example the rocker panel armour.
I think the best ide is to forget about denominations and build according to a picture.
Cheers,
Adam
Thatguy
Joined: November 09, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 10:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think the main difference is the IAP...
The only difference between the M1151 and M1151A1 is the IAP. The deflector bar is part of the IAP.
kubisz
Joined: February 18, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 05:14 PM UTC
Joe, thanks for Your answer. But...
Are You sure, that the green one has VEE windshield? I think that the deflector bar wouldn't allow the window to open. And at every interior photo of M1151A1 with such window there are no handles for opening windows
Quoted Text
Both of the vehicles in question have the VEE windshield. The green one just has the B-kit fitted
Are You sure, that the green one has VEE windshield? I think that the deflector bar wouldn't allow the window to open. And at every interior photo of M1151A1 with such window there are no handles for opening windows
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 06:10 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Joe, thanks for Your answer. But...Quoted TextBoth of the vehicles in question have the VEE windshield. The green one just has the B-kit fitted
Are You sure, that the green one has VEE windshield? I think that the deflector bar wouldn't allow the window to open. And at every interior photo of M1151A1 with such window there are no handles for opening windows
I agree.
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - 06:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI think the main difference is the IAP...
The only difference between the M1151 and M1151A1 is the IAP. The deflector bar is part of the IAP.
That is clear but I do not think that it excludes the fact that "basic" M1151s can have them, regardless it is from factory or retrofitted. My only logic here is that I have checked tons of photos labelled M1151 and all had this defector... (except for the ones with VEE).
Anyways, good topic, I think it will quite useful for a lot of us.
Thatguy
Joined: November 09, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - 01:04 AM UTC
The deflector bar is definitely part of the IAP, which is the only thing that differentiates M1151s and M1151A1s at base.
I'm seeing what you guys are saying about the VEE windshield and it would make sense to me too that to fit the windshield you'd have to remove the deflector bar. Without that bar fitted, however, and with Frag kits substituted for the IAP and B-kit components, it makes it basically impossible to tell M1151s from M1151A1s without reading the data plate.
My comment about the modularity of all of this armor was in total agreement with your statements that if you have a specific vehicle in mind, you should stick to what you see in the reference pictures you have of it.
I'm seeing what you guys are saying about the VEE windshield and it would make sense to me too that to fit the windshield you'd have to remove the deflector bar. Without that bar fitted, however, and with Frag kits substituted for the IAP and B-kit components, it makes it basically impossible to tell M1151s from M1151A1s without reading the data plate.
My comment about the modularity of all of this armor was in total agreement with your statements that if you have a specific vehicle in mind, you should stick to what you see in the reference pictures you have of it.
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - 10:07 AM UTC
Just to get back a little bit to the topic... 
Can anyone please name me the antennae marked with red? And the small black "thing" on the right side of the top, on the front (right to the soldier's head)? IED countermeasure or what?
Thanks a lot!
Can anyone please name me the antennae marked with red? And the small black "thing" on the right side of the top, on the front (right to the soldier's head)? IED countermeasure or what?
Thanks a lot!
sgtsauer
#065
Joined: March 30, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - 11:40 AM UTC
I'm getting into this discussion way late. But, the M1151A1's in my unit have the 'escape' windshields. They open at the top and fold down so the deflector bar shouldn't be an issue.
I will look into this more and get back to you guys.
I will look into this more and get back to you guys.
JimboHUN
Joined: May 07, 2009
KitMaker: 461 posts
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 04:47 AM UTC
Much appreciated! Thanks!
sgtsauer
#065
Joined: March 30, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, July 18, 2013 - 03:56 PM UTC
I'm still researching this but thought I would share what I've seen with M1152's. I need to go back and look at data plates and see if armor configurations are different thus determining what windshield is installed.
Side by side picture of the M1152's:
Standard Windshield
Notice absence of Emergency Escape Windshield release handles in second picture above.
Emergency Escape Windshield
Note the difference in height of the deflector bar armor on each variant.
Side by side picture of the M1152's:
Standard Windshield
Notice absence of Emergency Escape Windshield release handles in second picture above.
Emergency Escape Windshield
Note the difference in height of the deflector bar armor on each variant.
gogs007
Joined: February 03, 2007
KitMaker: 313 posts
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Posted: Saturday, July 20, 2013 - 10:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That is the only major difference. The M1165 is basically a pickup truck version of the armored HMMWV. Yes, the Academy kit can be converted into it. D-Corporation actually does a resin conversion kit for one.
Hi guys can anyone tell who stocks this, thanks
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