Gentlemen,

Could anyone please tell me, whether the only visible difference between M1165 and M1151 is the back of the top?

My question would be that whether is it possible to build this vehicle from the Academy kit:

http://mhrfweb.makett.org/MHRF/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=398%3Am1165res&Itemid=11&lang=hu

Thanks a lot! Any contribution is of great help.

Adam

That is the only major difference. The M1165 is basically a pickup truck version of the armored HMMWV. Yes, the Academy kit can be converted into it. D-Corporation actually does a resin conversion kit for one.

Excellent Walk around, Thanks for posting this Adam.

I second Gino, and we had a discussion here, Take a look at the lower section of the page.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/135585&ord=&page=10

Hope it helps a little

Jay

You know already about doors. Also You have to make CTIS valves on all wheels and add a bushguard. I guess it's all.

Thanks a lot Guys!

I have noted one more difference, compared to the photos I have taken. Therese Hungarian M1165s seem to have something attached to the "belly" of the vehicle. It is attached with the big screws situated alongside the lower part of the sides I(around the doors)...

Cheers,

Adam

Sounds like the Integrated Armor Protection (IAP) kit, which is a feature on the M1165A1. Do you have a picture?

I am thinking about this:

http://mhrfweb.makett.org/MHRF/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=398%3Am1165res&Itemid=11&lang=hu

On the other hand, I was wondering whether the armoured turret (the one with the windows) is the sam on up-armoured M1114s and M1151s?

Thanks a lot, again!

Well I am totally lost...

Can anyone advise on M1151, 1151A1, 115A1 w B1, armor packages?

This is M1151A1 w B1:



This one is used by Hungarian troops:



It has some kind of extra armour "strip" under/by the doors and something is attached behind the first wheel. On other photos of the same vehice I see armoru covering the fuel intake as well. Which version it should be exactly?

Thanks a million!

(I am writing an article on Academy's M1151 and I need to know which version is in the box - one difference is the lack of the already mentioned armour strip and cover on the fuel intake.)

you are building m1165. right? gino is very clear about that, m1151+D Cro.

As for the extra underbody proctection,

Legend m1151 update
http://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=LF1227

OR

if you want full underbody protection, eduar M-1151 EAC underbody protection FRAG2
http://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?item_no=36211

Hope it helps

Jay

Hi, I am not building 1165, I am just trying to clear the versions that Hungarian troops use and compare them to the Academy kit.

We have some 1165s back here and a plenty of M1151? versions in Afghanistan. Right now I am trying to identify the one on my last picture and figure out the different(?) armour kits... Frag, Integrated Armour PAckage (IAP).

Thanks a lot!

I have the same problem with identifying M1151 versions. From what I know , is that the Academy version of M1151 can be seen often on pictures from Iraq , but I do not know any more info about them..

One more thing that i noticed is that the windshield on Academy M1151 is different than the M1151 on picture you posted.

those are uparmored/ energemcy windows, not all m1151 or 1165 have those.........

Here are 2 humvee sites you guys should go check it out

1 Brend's
http://www.hmmwvinscale.com/

2 kuba's
http://www.humvee-models.com/

Plus
3. kuba and Sean 's collectoin in here
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/135585&ord=&page=10

happy modeling

Jay

One of the problems is that at the moment its still all sort of a mess. The Army is trying to sort it out and get things standardized after the better part of a decade of ad-hoc and interim armor solutions.

I'm not sure if this will just confuse you more, but you can look at the HMMWV in scale website and it should be able to explain to you the parts I'll point out.

- Frag 1 rocker panel and A-B-C pillar overlay (this is what you see under and around the doors)
- Frag 2 wheel well protection (you can see this in the picture too)
- Frag 5 doors (door type specific to the M1151/M1152/M1165)
- Objective Gunner Protection Kit (OGPK) with Frag 7 armored hood
- LTAS B Kit armored roof and windshield

This vehicle lacks components of the IAP that would remain even when fitted with the other armor components, most noticeably the plate along the underside of the windshield (which you can see in the other picture in your post). It also uses the Frag 2 armor, which wouldn't be needed if the IAP were fitted. So this vehicle, by all accounts, appears to be a standard M1151 instead of an M1151A1.

Thanks a million! This is just what I needed

What confused me that I've thought that frag kits mean an entire kit for all components...

So the A1 version is the same but with the underbelly plates that are attached to the 1165 I posted before?

Cheers,

Adam

Yeah, the Frag kit nomenclature has been quite confusing for people and understandably so. The Frag "numbers" generally correspond to a general vehicle area and just because there was a Frag kit for a certain vehicle didn't mean it had anything to do with a kit of the same number for another vehicle.

This is what I know of this:

Frag 1 - IED/spall protection/side protection
Frag 2 - Wheel well protection
Frag 3 - Fuel tank protection
Frag 4 - Underbelly protection
Frag 5 - Armored doors
Frag 6 - Modified armored doors/EFP protection
Frag 7 - Overhead protection

There wasn't necessarily a kit for each area for each vehicle either. I'm not aware of a Frag 4 kit for the HMMWV for instance.

The IAP on the M1151A1/M1152A1/M1165A1 vehicles provides underbelly protection, front and rear wheel well protection, that bar at the base of the windshield, and rocker panel armor. This provides protection akin to the Frag 1 and Frag 2 kits, but adds the underbelly protection.

Hats off!

I think now all clear, I can start my kit review

Thanks a lot,

Adam

Just another question has came to my mind...

Sorry if it seems dumb, I have read a lot but it is still unclear.

So, are M1151 and M1151A1 different base vehicles, each can be fitted with armour kits OR M1151A1 is the same as M1151 but with LTAS-A armour (underbelly)?

As of the roof armour, could anyone please supply some more detalis? It was said to my picture it has LATS-B roof+windshield armour, but for example this vehicle looks the same and it is quoted as FRAG 7: http://www.army.mil/article/19167/army-rushes-frag-7-to-the-field/

Thanks a lot, again!

Adam

And I have just found this on the official AM General M1151A1 leaflet:

M1151A1 includes standard:
Underbody armor
Rocker armor
Lower windscreen deflector armor
Energy absorbing seats
M1151A1 w/b1: Plant or Field
Installable b1 Kit includes:
Perimeter armor
Overhead armor
Rear ballistic bulkhead
Optional Frag Kits:
Frag 1: Side and door perimeter protection
Frag 2: Front cowl, and wheel well
protection
Frag 5: Door and SMCL (Single Movement
Combat Lock)

I think it is a Frag 7 kit that incluedes turret armour and new windshield that can be opened from the inside in case of emergency (BAE VEE, vehicle emergency windows). It took some time and a 3000-page manual but finally I am clear.

So my results, maybe worth to share:

Frag kits are applicable to M1151s, most visibly the Frag 7 (just mentioned above), Frag 5 doors, Frag 1 IED overlay kit (around the doors, A-B-C pillars and rocker panels), Frag 2 whell well protection.

As of M1151A1 and 1165A1 the term integrated aromur protection is indtroduced which offers the same protection (or more) in two levels. They can also receivel these Frag kits, but as it was mentioned before, these are not the same kits, but the cover the same area. Some features are indtegrated in factory (A1), like the "belly" protection shields and other different levels may be added later (B1/B2 etc).

At least this is my version

Cheers,

Adam

This article mentions a lot of stuff that was included with the Frag 7 kit, but I'm not sure whether its actually part of the Frag 7 kit or not. For instance, it had been my understanding that a lot of the automotive improvements had been part of near-term armor solution development and were refitted to vehicles as they went through depot maintenance regardless of what Frag kits they expected to have fitted. The additional perimeter armor and fuel filler cap door I had thought were part of Frag 1A. The VEE windshield is part of the LTAS B-kit as well.

Article: http://www.army.mil/article/19167/army-rushes-frag-7-to-the-field/

Items mentioned in the article:

- Overhead Cover (OHC) for the OGPK
- VEE windshield
- Improved suspension (Armor Suspension Kit or ASK; which confusingly has the same acronym as the Armor Survivability Kit for A0-A2 HMMWVs)
- Improved Automatic Fire Suppression System/Manual Fire Suppression System (AFES/MFES)
- Improved brakes
- Fuel filler cap door and added armor protection around the edge of the doors

The Survivability Smartbook the US Army published on armor kit items for its vehicles only mentions the overhead protection in its entry on the HMMWV Frag 7 kit.

I am not native English, but the phrasing " protection for both the gunner and all the occupants of the M1151" suggested me that Frag 7 also covers the top of the vehicle, too...

Another thought has just came to my mind... How is the basic roof of the M1151? I have always presumed that the ones with thick roof and those triangular attachment points between the two doors have the extra Frag 7 kit. But maybe this is the basic, factory protection?

The roof is supposed to be part of the LTAS B-Kit. The B-Kit for the M1151A1 is supposed to include the perimeter overlay (similar to, but not the same as the Frag 1A kit), armored doors (similar to, but not the same as the Frag 5 kit), the VEE windshield, the armored roof in question, and a C-pillar reinforcement.

Thanks!

But then this means that all HMMWVs are fitted/retrofitted with LTAS-B roof? I acannot seem to find a picture without it, except for just out of factory models.

Regards,

Adam

It could be that the Frag 7 kit includes both the armored roof and the OHC. Its true that I've never seen a picture of a vehicle in a combat zone without the armored roof either.

Maybe I got it sorted out.

This is the basic, out of factory M1151:



The roof (and the windshields) is the same like on other M1151s and on the Academy kit, except for the two attached triangular parts on each side, between the doors. It may be an extra reinforcement, I have no idea...

This is the "normal" M1151:



This one is equipped with Frag 7 kit and the roof is more thicker, it is clearly visible that there is one extra layer on the horizontal part of the roof (check the high-res picture at wikipedia):



What do you think?

Cheers,

Adam