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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Re: M4 Sherman's Popularity
ubisuck
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2013 - 02:53 AM UTC
Does someone would care to throw in his opinion as to why the M4 Sherman "seems" to be one of the most popular plastic models among WWII tanks/vehicles?

Maybe I'm completely wrong in my thinking and you know what: It has happened and it will happen again (that I was/am/will be wrong). ;-)

Take care

Marc
berwickj
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2013 - 03:16 AM UTC
So many of them made, and in so many variants. There were also many other afvs based on the Sherman chassis.

my 2 cents
John
newjoisey
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2013 - 03:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So many of them made, and in so many variants. There were also many other afvs based on the Sherman chassis.

my 2 cents
John

i would agree
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2013 - 03:23 AM UTC
They built a lot of them.
There are a lot of different versions.
Basically every allied country used them.
They were used from the fall of 1942 through the end of the war.
They were successful.
There are a fair number still around today.
PantherF
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Posted: Friday, June 07, 2013 - 06:17 AM UTC
It's an American icon. Plus, so many other nations used it too.

It's all we had for a long time, opening up any history book on WWII and there it is... along with a few TD's but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!



~ Jeff
UncaBret
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2013 - 05:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


They were used from the fall of 1942 through the end of the war.



And long after. There might still be some in service somewhere in the world!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 06:15 AM UTC
The US M4 Sherman has been the victim of a lot of unfair criticism, which only in the last 20 years or so has been rectified by closer examination of the true facts. Firstly, and this is perhaps the most important fact, is that the US Army had a misguided doctrine regarding the use of its armor. US tanks were initially intended to provide SUPPORT for the infantry, and not the other way around. US World War II armor was not designed for tank vs tank combat. Consequently, US tank crews were very inexperienced as regards to tank vs tank combat, as they found out. Initially, as at Kasserine, February, 1943, Shermans were destroyed largely by German anti-tank weapons such as the PaK.38 and PaK.40, and also by the excellent Flak.18 and 36/37, in defilade. The Tiger I also came as a nasty surprise, whereas Pz.Kpfw.IIIs and IVs had the advantage only if they caught US Armor by surprise. Early M4s were roughly equal to the Pz.Kpfw.IVs, and superior to Pz.Kpfw.IIIs... Once American M4 tankers gained experience, often very painfully, they were able to defeat the German Mk.IIIs and Mk.IVs with regularity- THAT IS A FACT... The appearance of the German Panthers and Tigers in Italy and in Normandy, which were usually concealed in ambush, were initially a real headache for US M4 tankers. One of the deficiencies of the M4-series Mediums was their relatively thin armor, when compared to panthers and Tigers. In time, it was found that ALL Panthers, Tiger Is and Tiger IIs COULD be killed by AT Round penetration in their sides and/or rear. Where the German Panthers and Tigers were clearly superior to US tanks, was in their frontal armor, superior main weapons and optical gun sights. Turret-traverse: A great technical disadvantage of German armor was that they employed manual turret-traverse, whereas the M4-series tanks enjoyed the benefits of electric/hydraulic turret-traverse, with a manual detente. If a Panther or Tiger was caught off of it's longitudinal axis, as it would be in having slid or driven into a ditch, it would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to traverse the turret if an upward orientation was necessary. This was because of the great weight of the turret and main gun assembly. The US M4-series tanks turret-traverse was roughly THREE TIMES AS FAST as the Germans' manual traverse... Dependability and quality: The US M4-series tanks were VERY dependable mechanically. This dependability was evident in the M4-series having a very low amount of "down-time" as opposed to their German counterparts. The M4-series dependability was enhanced by American youth having grown up in a nation of mechanics- US tankers were remarkably experienced in automotive technology. American boys were great "tinkerers", in that time of no computers or cell phones. Most American kids today don't even know what a spark plug is for... Now this is important: Where an American tank crew could fix many mechanical problems, a German tank crew would many times have to abandon their mount for lack of mechanical experience and/or lack of parts. The German Panther and Tiger crews were plagued with various mechanical difficulties, such as engine, transmission and final drive failures, plus a nasty propensity for engine compartment fires- Fuel and oil would build up in the bottoms of their Panthers' and Tigers' engine bays, due to faulty fuel line connections. Their tanks would catch fire from the excessive heat given off by the under-powered, over-worked engines. The M4-series tanks were much more reliable in this respect. Track-life: All US tanks, even today's M1 Abrams-series tanks, utilize "live track" which will coil up on itself, greatly increasing track life and wear. (Don't model your US tanks with "track-sag"- US tracks are to be adjusted as tight as possible.) The advantage of "live track" rolling up on itself is manifested in less wear and tear on the engines, transmissions, final drive units and FUEL ECONOMY... The average Sherman had a track-life of 2500 miles, as opposed to German tanks, which at best, could only manage 500 miles. Fuel consumption: Given the fact that German Tigers and Panthers were so heavy, inefficient fuel consumption was another great disadvantage for the Panthers and Tigers. German armor's fuel consumption was calculated as "how many gallons to the mile", whereas with US tanks, fuel mileage was calculated as "how many miles to the gallon". History will bear me out- The Germans lost the "Battle of the Bulge" because of American determination and the Germans' running out of gas... The track-life of the Sherman, along with it's excellent fuel mileage (for a tank, that is...) contributed greatly to the Allies' race across France in July-September of 1944. Numerical superiority: It is a well-known fact that the M4-series Medium was built in staggering numbers- Nearly 50,000 Shermans were built during World War II. Only the Soviet T-34 exceeded the M4-series in production numbers. There is an oft quoted testimonial by a German tanker that goes: "One of our Tigers can kill TEN of your Shermans, but you always seem to have ELEVEN..." Please pardon me if my quote is not verbatim... On the matter of M4s killing German Tigers and Panthers: US tankers quickly learned several very efficient ways to defeat Tigers and Panthers; by maneuver, which entailed several M4s engaging (if possible) in a bewildering fashion, by swarming around the big German tanks like hornets, diverting attention from several Shermans making for the sides or rear of their target, thus being able to defeat the thinner sides and rear plates of said German tank. Another technique of dispatching any German tank was to fire a "Willy-Pete" round (White Phosphorous) at any area of the enemy tank where there were hatches, engine covers or the turret race. The "Willy-Pete", burning furiously, would seep into the German tank, igniting oils, fuels and greases, not to mention the crew members. If you got "Willy Pete" on you, you made peace with your God... Inevitably, the "Willy-Pete" would very quickly seep and burn its way into the ammo stowage, causing catastrophic destruction of the vehicle. Firing a well-placed HE round (High Explosive) would also scare a German crew into mistakenly abandoning their tank... Sometimes... Suspensions: The American VVSS and HVSS suspensions were tried and proven to be very dependable, as opposed to the German Torsion Bar Suspensions. This was largely due to the failings of the German Steel Industry- German metallurgy had declined to the point where torsion bars snapped quite regularly, further adding to the German tank crews' discomfiture. Level of experience: By late 1944, early 1945, Sherman crews were at a distinct advantage over German tank crews in that the Allied tankers were now the more experienced men. German manpower was nearing its demise, as young teenagers and old men were replacing the veterans. Confidence in equipment: US tankers, with their higher level of training Stateside, were VERY confident in their equipment. Yes, there were lapses in this confidence when US tankers first encountered the Panthers and Tigers, but with time, their confidence returned once they gained more experience and realized that these German "super-tanks" weren't so "super" after all. Even US Infantry and Combat Engineers learned the weak points of these vaunted Panthers and Tigers, and were able to defeat them with supposedly inferior US-made Bazookas. As to M4-based M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers, along with the new M18 TDs, the tank destroyer crews learned the same lessons as their cousins in the M4s did, i.e. how to properly defeat "superior" German Armor. If you have ANY doubts regarding the capabilities of M4s, M10s, M36s, M18s and Bazookas, read the excellent book about the "Battle of the Bulge", "A TIME FOR TRUMPETS" and "Company Commander" by Charles B. MacDonald, who really was a US Infantry Company Commander in Europe during World War II. In my opinion, weighing all of these aforementioned factors leads me to believe that the M4-series Mediums may not have had the thickest skins or the most powerful guns and gunsights. BUT! The Shermans were vastly superior in mechanical dependability and quality, superior in automotive design and simplicity, and tops in the job that it was designed for. It was the US and Allied tankers that raised the M4s' so-called "mediocrity" to a superior level. In recognizing all of the M4s' faults and their very real attributes, the crews turned the M4 Mediums into STARS... Hope this answers your questions as to why the M4 Sherman has become so popular... M4s RULE!!!
PantherF
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 06:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The US M4 Sherman has been the victim of a lot of unfair criticism, which only in the last 20 years or so has been rectified by closer examination of the true facts. Firstly, and this is perhaps the most important fact, is that the US Army had a misguided doctrine regarding the use of its armor. US tanks were initially intended to provide SUPPORT for the infantry, and not the other way around. US armor was not designed for tank vs tank combat. Consequently, US tank crews were very inexperienced as regards to tank vs tank combat, as they found out. Initially, as at Kasserine, February, 1943, Shermans were destroyed largely by German anti-tank weapons such as the PaK.38 and PaK.40, and also by the excellent Flak.18 and 36/37, in defilade. The Tiger I also came as a nasty surprise, whereas Pz.Kpfw.IIIs and IVs had the advantage only if they caught US Armor by surprise. Early M4s were roughly equal to the Pz.Kpfw.IVs, and superior to Pz.Kpfw.IIIs... Once American M4 tankers gained experience, they were able to defeat the German Mk.IIIs and Mk.IVs with regularity- THAT IS A FACT... The appearance of the German Panthers and Tigers in Italy and in Normandy, which were usually concealed in ambush, were initially a real headache for US M4 tankers. One of the deficiencies of the M4-series Mediums was their relatively thin armor, when compared to panthers and Tigers. In time, it was found that ALL Panthers, Tiger Is and Tiger IIs COULD be killed by AT Round penetration in their sides and/or rear. Where the German Panthers and Tigers were clearly superior to US tanks, was in their frontal armor, superior main weapons and optical gun sights. Turret-traverse: A great technical disadvantage of German armor was that they employed manual turret-traverse, whereas the M4-series tanks enjoyed the benefits of electric/hydraulic turret-traverse, with a manual detente. If a Panther or Tiger was caught off of it's longitudinal axis, as it would be in having slid or driven into a ditch, it would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to traverse the turret if an upward orientation was necessary. This was because of the great weight of the turret and main gun assembly. The US M4-series tanks turret-traverse was roughly THREE TIMES AS FAST as the Germans' manual traverse... Dependability and quality: The US M4-series tanks were VERY dependable mechanically. This dependability was evident in the M4-series having a very low amount of "down-time" as opposed to their German counterparts. The M4-series dependability was enhanced by American youth having grown up in a nation of mechanics- US tankers were remarkably experienced in automotive technology. American boys were great "tinkerers", in that time of no computers or cell phones. Most American kids today don't even know what a spark plug is for... Now this is important: Where an American tank crew could fix many mechanical problems, a German tank crew would many times have to abandon their mount for lack of mechanical experience and/or lack of parts. The German Panther and Tiger crews were plagued with various mechanical difficulties, such as engine, transmission and final drive failures, plus a nasty propensity for engine compartment fires- Fuel and oil would build up in the bottoms of their Panthers' and Tigers' engine bays, due to faulty fuel line connections. Their tanks would catch fire from the excessive heat given off by the under-powered, over-worked engines. The M4-series tanks were much more reliable in this respect. Track-life: All US tanks, even today's M1 Abrams-series tanks, utilize "live track" which will coil up on itself, greatly increasing track life and wear. (Don't model your US tanks with "track-sag"- US tracks are to be adjusted as tight as possible.) The advantage of "live track" rolling up on itself is manifested in less wear and tear on the engines, transmissions, final drive units and FUEL ECONOMY... The average Sherman had a track-life of 2500 miles, as opposed to German tanks, which at best, could only manage 500 miles. Fuel consumption: Given the fact that German Tigers and Panthers were so heavy, inefficient fuel consumption was another great disadvantage for the Panthers and Tigers. German armor's fuel consumption was calculated as "how many gallons to the mile", whereas with US tanks, fuel mileage was calculated as "how many miles to the gallon". History will bear me out- The Germans lost the "Battle of the Bulge" because of American determination and the Germans' running out of gas... The track-life of the Sherman, along with it's excellent fuel mileage (for a tank, that is...) contributed greatly to the Allies' race across France in July-September of 1944. Numerical superiority: It is a well-known fact that the M4-series Medium was built in staggering numbers- Nearly 50,000 Shermans were built during World War II. Only the Soviet T-34 exceeded the M4-series in production numbers. There is an oft quoted testimonial by a German tanker that goes: "One of our Tigers can kill TEN of your Shermans, but you always seem to have ELEVEN..." Please pardon me if my quote is not verbatim... On the matter of M4s killing German Tigers and Panthers: US tankers quickly learned several very efficient ways to defeat Tigers and Panthers; by maneuver, which entailed several M4s engaging (if possible) in a bewildering fashion, by swarming around the big German tanks like hornets, diverting attention from several Shermans making for the sides or rear of their target, thus being able to defeat the thinner sides and rear plates of said German tank. Another technique of dispatching any German tank was to fire a "Willy-Pete" round (White Phosphorous) at any area of the enemy tank where there were hatches, engine covers or the turret race. The "Willy-Pete", burning furiously, would seep into the German tank, igniting oils, fuels and greases, not to mention the crew members. If you got "Willy Pete" on you, you made peace with your God... Inevitably, the "Willy-Pete" would very quickly seep and burn its way into the ammo stowage, causing catastrophic destruction of the vehicle. Firing a well-placed HE round (High Explosive) would also scare a German crew into mistakenly abandoning their tank... Sometimes... Suspensions: The American VVSS and HVSS suspensions were tried and proven to be very dependable, as opposed to the German Torsion Bar Suspensions. This was largely due to the failings of the German Steel Industry- German metallurgy had declined to the point where torsion bars snapped quite regularly, further adding to the German tank crews' discomfiture. Level of experience: By late 1944, early 1945, Sherman crews were at a distinct advantage over German tank crews in that the Allied tankers were now the more experienced men. German manpower was nearing its demise, as young teenagers and old men were replacing the veterans. Confidence in equipment: US tankers, with their higher level of training Stateside, were VERY confident in their equipment. Yes, there were lapses in this confidence when US tankers first encountered the Panthers and Tigers, but with time, their confidence returned once they gained more experience and realized that these German "super-tanks" weren't so "super" after all. Even US Infantry and Combat Engineers learned the weak points of these vaunted Panthers and Tigers, and were able to defeat them with supposedly inferior US-made Bazookas. As to M4-based M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers, along with the new M18 TDs, the tank destroyer crews learned the same lessons as their cousins in the M4s did, i.e. how to properly defeat "superior" German Armor. If you have ANY doubts regarding the capabilities of M4s, M10s, M36s, M18s and Bazookas, read the excellent book about the "Battle of the Bulge", "A TIME FOR TRUMPETS" and "Company Commander" by Charles B. MacDonald, who really was a US Infantry Company Commander in Europe during World War II. In my opinion, weighing all of these aforementioned factors leads me to believe that the M4-series Mediums may not have had the thickest skins or the most powerful guns and gunsights. BUT! The Shermans were vastly superior in mechanical dependability and quality, superior in automotive design and simplicity, and tops in the job that it was designed for. It was the US and Allied tankers that raised the M4s' so-called "mediocrity" to a superior level. In recognizing all of the M4s' faults and their very real attributes, the crews turned the M4 Mediums into STARS... Hope this answers your questions as to why the M4 Sherman has become so popular... M4s RULE!!!







AMEN



~ Jeff
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 06:32 AM UTC
I can't even bring myself to read that. Using paragraphs and proper sentence structure will make that a LOT more useful.
Grindcore
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 07:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I can't even bring myself to read that. Using paragraphs and proper sentence structure will make that a LOT more useful.



Lol, I could use the cliff notes for that.

JamesL27
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 07:32 AM UTC
I always felt the Tiger I was the most popular given the number of German/Tiger fanboys for every WWII related activity (modeling, video games, reenacting etc...). But then again, I am new to modeling, haven't even made a traditional model yet.

What you could do though is, compare the number of kits of the Sherman vs Tiger (or other popular model) released in the past 10-15 years. While you'll never know the number of kit sales, it can give an overall view of demand, and hence popularity.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 07:59 AM UTC
Sorry, I got carried away with that! Agreed! Next time I post a rant (or a lecture) I'll try not to offend your tender sensibilities!!!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 08:05 AM UTC
There's A DEFINITE bias in favor of the German WWII stuff by the plastic kit manufacturers out there. Must be everybody loves a loser...
PantherF
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 08:26 AM UTC
I thought this was a modeling forum and not a Grammar class.

Oh well.



~ Jeff
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 08:53 AM UTC
Thanks Jeff!!! I wonder why a certain fellow hasn't corrected anyone else' English Grammar on this hobby site..? Not that that it matters... Thanks to all OTHERS for sharing agreement regarding the M4-series Medium; perhaps the best tank of World War II!!!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 09:09 AM UTC
PS- The M4A3E8 CONSISTENTLY killed T-34s in Korea... Just thought I'd throw that in, in addition to my "lovefest"-speech regarding "Dame M4"...
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 09:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Jeff!!! I wonder why a certain fellow hasn't corrected anyone else' English Grammar on this hobby site..? Not that that it matters... Thanks to all OTHERS for sharing agreement regarding the M4-series Medium; perhaps the best tank of World War II!!!



I commented on it because I think you tend to post useful things, but due to your format, they can be frustrating to read. It's not the length, or poor grammar and spelling that causes the biggest problem. There are a lot of non-English speakers on this forum, and their posts are just fine and understandable. However, what you posted is physically hard to read. Every few sentences, press that enter button a few times.
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 09:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The US M4 Sherman has been the victim of a lot of unfair criticism, which only in the last 20 years or so has been rectified by closer examination of the true facts.

Firstly, and this is perhaps the most important fact, is that the US Army had a misguided doctrine regarding the use of its armor. US tanks were initially intended to provide SUPPORT for the infantry, and not the other way around. US World War II armor was not designed for tank vs tank combat. Consequently, US tank crews were very inexperienced as regards to tank vs tank combat, as they found out.

Initially, as at Kasserine, February, 1943, Shermans were destroyed largely by German anti-tank weapons such as the PaK.38 and PaK.40, and also by the excellent Flak.18 and 36/37, in defilade. The Tiger I also came as a nasty surprise, whereas Pz.Kpfw.IIIs and IVs had the advantage only if they caught US Armor by surprise. Early M4s were roughly equal to the Pz.Kpfw.IVs, and superior to Pz.Kpfw.IIIs... Once American M4 tankers gained experience, often very painfully, they were able to defeat the German Mk.IIIs and Mk.IVs with regularity- THAT IS A FACT...

The appearance of the German Panthers and Tigers in Italy and in Normandy, which were usually concealed in ambush, were initially a real headache for US M4 tankers. One of the deficiencies of the M4-series Mediums was their relatively thin armor, when compared to panthers and Tigers. In time, it was found that ALL Panthers, Tiger Is and Tiger IIs COULD be killed by AT Round penetration in their sides and/or rear. Where the German Panthers and Tigers were clearly superior to US tanks, was in their frontal armor, superior main weapons and optical gun sights.

Turret-traverse: A great technical disadvantage of German armor was that they employed manual turret-traverse, whereas the M4-series tanks enjoyed the benefits of electric/hydraulic turret-traverse, with a manual detente. If a Panther or Tiger was caught off of it's longitudinal axis, as it would be in having slid or driven into a ditch, it would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to traverse the turret if an upward orientation was necessary. This was because of the great weight of the turret and main gun assembly. The US M4-series tanks turret-traverse was roughly THREE TIMES AS FAST as the Germans' manual traverse... Dependability and quality: The US M4-series tanks were VERY dependable mechanically. This dependability was evident in the M4-series having a very low amount of "down-time" as opposed to their German counterparts. The M4-series dependability was enhanced by American youth having grown up in a nation of mechanics- US tankers were remarkably experienced in automotive technology. American boys were great "tinkerers", in that time of no computers or cell phones.

Most American kids today don't even know what a spark plug is for... Now this is important: Where an American tank crew could fix many mechanical problems, a German tank crew would many times have to abandon their mount for lack of mechanical experience and/or lack of parts. The German Panther and Tiger crews were plagued with various mechanical difficulties, such as engine, transmission and final drive failures, plus a nasty propensity for engine compartment fires- Fuel and oil would build up in the bottoms of their Panthers' and Tigers' engine bays, due to faulty fuel line connections. Their tanks would catch fire from the excessive heat given off by the under-powered, over-worked engines. The M4-series tanks were much more reliable in this respect.

Track-life: All US tanks, even today's M1 Abrams-series tanks, utilize "live track" which will coil up on itself, greatly increasing track life and wear. (Don't model your US tanks with "track-sag"- US tracks are to be adjusted as tight as possible.) The advantage of "live track" rolling up on itself is manifested in less wear and tear on the engines, transmissions, final drive units and FUEL ECONOMY... The average Sherman had a track-life of 2500 miles, as opposed to German tanks, which at best, could only manage 500 miles.

Fuel consumption: Given the fact that German Tigers and Panthers were so heavy, inefficient fuel consumption was another great disadvantage for the Panthers and Tigers. German armor's fuel consumption was calculated as "how many gallons to the mile", whereas with US tanks, fuel mileage was calculated as "how many miles to the gallon". History will bear me out- The Germans lost the "Battle of the Bulge" because of American determination and the Germans' running out of gas... The track-life of the Sherman, along with it's excellent fuel mileage (for a tank, that is...) contributed greatly to the Allies' race across France in July-September of 1944.

Numerical superiority: It is a well-known fact that the M4-series Medium was built in staggering numbers- Nearly 50,000 Shermans were built during World War II. Only the Soviet T-34 exceeded the M4-series in production numbers. There is an oft quoted testimonial by a German tanker that goes: "One of our Tigers can kill TEN of your Shermans, but you always seem to have ELEVEN..." Please pardon me if my quote is not verbatim... On the matter of M4s killing German Tigers and Panthers: US tankers quickly learned several very efficient ways to defeat Tigers and Panthers; by maneuver, which entailed several M4s engaging (if possible) in a bewildering fashion, by swarming around the big German tanks like hornets, diverting attention from several Shermans making for the sides or rear of their target, thus being able to defeat the thinner sides and rear plates of said German tank. Another technique of dispatching any German tank was to fire a "Willy-Pete" round (White Phosphorous) at any area of the enemy tank where there were hatches, engine covers or the turret race. The "Willy-Pete", burning furiously, would seep into the German tank, igniting oils, fuels and greases, not to mention the crew members. If you got "Willy Pete" on you, you made peace with your God... Inevitably, the "Willy-Pete" would very quickly seep and burn its way into the ammo stowage, causing catastrophic destruction of the vehicle. Firing a well-placed HE round (High Explosive) would also scare a German crew into mistakenly abandoning their tank... Sometimes...

Suspensions: The American VVSS and HVSS suspensions were tried and proven to be very dependable, as opposed to the German Torsion Bar Suspensions. This was largely due to the failings of the German Steel Industry- German metallurgy had declined to the point where torsion bars snapped quite regularly, further adding to the German tank crews' discomfiture.

Level of experience: By late 1944, early 1945, Sherman crews were at a distinct advantage over German tank crews in that the Allied tankers were now the more experienced men. German manpower was nearing its demise, as young teenagers and old men were replacing the veterans. Confidence in equipment: US tankers, with their higher level of training Stateside, were VERY confident in their equipment. Yes, there were lapses in this confidence when US tankers first encountered the Panthers and Tigers, but with time, their confidence returned once they gained more experience and realized that these German "super-tanks" weren't so "super" after all. Even US Infantry and Combat Engineers learned the weak points of these vaunted Panthers and Tigers, and were able to defeat them with supposedly inferior US-made Bazookas. As to M4-based M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers, along with the new M18 TDs, the tank destroyer crews learned the same lessons as their cousins in the M4s did, i.e. how to properly defeat "superior" German Armor. If you have ANY doubts regarding the capabilities of M4s, M10s, M36s, M18s and Bazookas, read the excellent book about the "Battle of the Bulge", "A TIME FOR TRUMPETS" and "Company Commander" by Charles B. MacDonald, who really was a US Infantry Company Commander in Europe during World War II.

In my opinion, weighing all of these aforementioned factors leads me to believe that the M4-series Mediums may not have had the thickest skins or the most powerful guns and gunsights. BUT! The Shermans were vastly superior in mechanical dependability and quality, superior in automotive design and simplicity, and tops in the job that it was designed for. It was the US and Allied tankers that raised the M4s' so-called "mediocrity" to a superior level. In recognizing all of the M4s' faults and their very real attributes, the crews turned the M4 Mediums into STARS... Hope this answers your questions as to why the M4 Sherman has become so popular... M4s RULE!!!




See how much better this post flows?
Cuny12
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 11:14 AM UTC
I recommend A book called Death traps written by Belton cooper who was tasked with coordinating recovery and reissue of Battle damaged tanks from Normandy through to Wars end he outlines how stubborn High command were to change some tactics and equipment he also outlines technical deficiencies on both sides he also stated losses of 500 percent from Normandy to To VE Day he details how the Pershing could have shortened the war if not saved many lives if they had of fielded it earlier By the time Ardennes rolled around Infantry soldiers were being given crash courses in being an M4 Crew as the losses of trained tank crews were staggering he also stated that the M4 was grossly unmatched to German Armor Please don't take this as my expert opinion only what I have read and was shocked by what he details in his book as I said If your interested in the M4 then this is a must read cheers Ben
newjoisey
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 11:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Jeff!!! I wonder why a certain fellow hasn't corrected anyone else' English Grammar on this hobby site..? Not that that it matters... Thanks to all OTHERS for sharing agreement regarding the M4-series Medium; perhaps the best tank of World War II!!!

nice write up. i understood it
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 11:39 AM UTC
Thank You, Jesse! You're a gentleman! Having NEVER learned the proper procedure for typing, I was actually ignorant of the proper way to space my paragraphs. As far as my run-on sentences are concerned, I really did get carried away. Sometimes my thoughts get way ahead of my "Two-fingered Hunt and Peck" method of typing.

I still don't know what the proper procedure is to type certain vowels in the German Language that make use of an "umlaut". I would much rather use the umlaut over the "Anglicized" method. It sticks in my craw, because we spoke German at home when my Mom and Grandma were still alive. I spoke Ukrainian with my Dad, who also taught me some Polish, a little bit of Russian, and a few words of Czech, here and there... I've been using, for example, "ae", as in "Waffentraeger", "oe", as in "Goering", and "ue", as in "fuehrer"... I want to get away from that... HELLLPPP!!!
JamesL27
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 11:43 AM UTC
For umlauts (and tons of other symbols) hold down the alt key then type the appropriate 3 number code in the number pad, then let go of the alt key

Here's a link with the codes
http://symbolcodes.tlt.psu.edu/accents/codealt.html#accent
you don't need to type the zeroes in front
wedgetail53
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 12:22 PM UTC
James

Thanks for that - it's one of the most useful links I have seen for some time!

Going back to some earlier comments - yes, I agree that proper spelling, punctuation, grammar, and sentence construction make for a much more easily readable article - that's what I have to correct on a regular basis as an Armorama editor.

However, IMHO we should be giving more encouragement to people like Dennis for contributing such well informed and lengthy articles, and less criticism for their writing expertise.

Regards

Rob
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 12:29 PM UTC
Hi, Ben! I also have Belton Cooper's book, "Death Traps"- It is a very informative read. Especially the tragic realization of how difficult it was for the American Maintenance Units to clean up the horrible blood and gore found in recovered American Shermans, after having suffering fatal shots at the hands of German Armor... Mr.Cooper also relates in a very interesting fashion, the excellent technical aspects of the US M4 Medium, as well as its faults. The M4 suffered a lot of bad press, mainly from individuals who were of the opinion that "the other guy's stuff is ALWAYS better than ours"...

However, we should keep in mind that Mr.Cooper was writing about his own personal experiences with the M4-series Medium. Mr.Cooper served in the Maintenance Units of the US 3rd Armored Division, which through one reason or another, or just plain BAD LUCK, had THE HIGHEST ATTRITION RATE OF ALL US Tank Divisions employed in ETO. Conversely, other famous US Armored Divisions, such as General Patton's 4th and 6th Armored, suffered a fraction of the losses incurred by the 3rd. The 3rd Armored was commanded by Maj.General Maurice Rose who, though popular, was a very strict martinet. Could the 3rd Armored have been suffering from a morale problem? This is conjecture, at best...

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts regarding the M4-series Medium, I recommend very highly that we refer back to Charles B. MacDonald's book, "A Time for Trumpets". In this book, Mr. MacDonald relates the activities and experiences of such famous US Tank Divisions such the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, and 10th Armored Divisions, though the main theme of this excellent book is the "Battle of the Bulge" overall, as experienced by both the US and German sides. It's a great read, with many personal stories...

Mr.MacDonald served as a US Infantry Company Commander during World War II, and he DID serve in the Bastogne area, but did not come into contact with either the 82nd or the 101st Airborne Divisions. There were MANY US Infantry, Armored, Artillery, Combat Engineer, Medical, Service and Supply, Military Police, Headquarters Units and many other services that were involved in this famous battle. The MEDIA has seen fit to put forth the idea that it was only the 101st Airborne that fought in the "Battle of the Bulge".

I mean to take nothing away from the heroes of the 101st, but the various media have not been fair to all the other brave Americans and their units that served, and died, to stop the Germans' last great offensive in the West...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 01:01 PM UTC
Hi, Gents! Thanks JL27, for the heads-up on how to get umlauts, and Bob, for the recognition of my posts! Jesse, thanks- I'll be doing more "readable" posts from now on. Even though I'm very heavy on US WWII equipment, (32 US M4s alone, not ONE of them the same as the next one, and not counting Brit & Commonwealth Shermans) I DO build WWII German, Soviet, British & Commonwealth stuff, plus Japanese and other nations' vehicles.

I also do A LOT of "modern" US, Soviet and Russian Federation vehicles, plus some Vietnam-era stuff. I LOOOOVE Softskins, especially the female kind... No offense, Ladies- where would we all be without you?

1/48 Aircraft are my real "first love"- DON'T ask me how many P-47s, P-51s and many other "multiples" I have. It's embarrassing... HO stuff? I've got eight New York Central J-series 4-6-4 Hudsons alone. Sorry, there are just SO MANY different ways to model different subjects... I could ramble on and on, but I'll spare you all...
 _GOTOTOP