Just doing some research on a Panzer IV ausf H/J turret number 635.Just ordered the Dragon 6611 kit and not sure if its been discussed before but 635 is an ausf J?.found a couple of photos on flick river of this tank and it has braun-ark on the gun sleeve.Also Bison decals mark it as a J and include the braun ark decal.

Was the H and J more or less identical?

Thanks
Karl

"Despite addressing the mobility problems introduced by the previous model, the final production version of the Panzer IV—the Ausf. J—was considered a retrograde from the Ausf. H. Born of German necessity to replace heavy losses, it was greatly simplified to speed production.[36] The electric generator that powered the tank's turret traverse was removed, so the turret had to be rotated manually. The space was later used for the installation of an auxiliary 200-litre (44 imp gal) fuel tank; road range was thereby increased to 320 km (200 mi),[37] The pistol and vision ports in the turret were removed, and the engine's radiator housing was simplified by changing the slanted sides to straight sides.[35] In addition, the cylindrical muffler was replaced by two flame-suppressing mufflers. By late 1944, Zimmerit was no longer being applied to German armored vehicles, and the Panzer IV's side-skirts had been replaced by wire mesh, while to further speed production the number of return rollers was reduced from four to three.[38]"
-Wikipedia

Ausf J was produced in mind to simplify the production by simplifying the design of Ausf H. In general, all characteristics of Ausf H were retained including weight, speed, mechanical components and armament. The first component deleted was the electric turret drive with auxiliary generator set, which resulted that the turret had to be traversed manually by hand. Its place was to be taken by 200-litre fuel tank after the production started in July of 1944. This increased the fuel capacity to 680 litres, increasing the combat range to over 300km. It is interesting to point out that German designers decided to increase the fuel capacity at the time when German Armed Forces faced serious fuel shortage problems. Problems were encountered with new fuel tanks and installations started in September of 1944. As the production continued, more modifications were made including: deletion of turret visor and pistol ports, installation of Pilze 2-ton crane mount sockets, introduction of Flammentoeter mufflers, conversion from plate Schurzen to wire-mesh Thoma type, reduction to 3 return rollers per side, installation of Naehverteidigungswaffe close defence system and ceasing application of Zimmerit paste. In addition to new modifications, numerous changes made to Ausf G and H were also applied to Ausf J.
-Achtungpanzer

So, basically "yes". The ausf. H and Ausf. J were, in most respects the same tank. The differences were the interior and, I believe, the anti-mine mesh used on the J. I'm not as familiar with the later pz. IVs and I can give no authoritative decision as such.

Pretty sure that this tank is an ausf H, in fact that's what Dragon says it is on the box lid. Just wondering if there's been a bit of confusion over the fact that the box also says "Mid Production HJ Div. Normandy" - is that where the "H/J" bit in your post comes from? That refers to the fact that this tank is part of Hitler Jugend SS Division.

According to Doyle and Jentz, the main distinguishing difference from H to J is, as Matt mentioned, the deletion of the powered turret traverse, which resulted in the absence of the small exhaust muffler for the auxiliary generator motor - on the H this is mounted on the rear plate to the left of the main exhaust - a little square box with a small vertical pipe from the top. So the J goes from something like March or April 44; there are beyond this various other changes that take place in the following months that result in further differences that provide differences in what you might call the characteristic appearance of the two marques, but are not strictly seen on all... so the external air filter on the track guard of the H is not seen on the J, but is also sometimes not on the H either. Early Js may retain the same exhaust as the H, and the same schurzen, but the characteristic J look is the mesh schurzen (from Sept 44) and the vertical tubular exhausts (from August 44) rather than the horizontal cylinder of previous marques, no zimmerit (from Sept 44).

Thanking you both for your very in depth replies.
I guess this is what comes with modelling now days,finding out about all information about a specific vehicle that you want to model.
I have learned to do some research before you start your project as it avoids a lot of unwanted criticism

Those pesky germans were always changing there weapons, wonder if they were trying to use up the whole alphabet

Cheers
Karl

If you need some visual references, let me know and I'll hook you up.

If I can chime in here, Matt. The schurzen and "Thoma" mesh were mounted to defeat AT Rifle bullets -- not as stand off protection for AT rounds or hollow-charge weapons. This mistaken assumption took hold shortly after the war but from German documentation, it clearly was not developed to protect vs. Allied hollow-charge weapons (like the bazooka).

If you review vehicles that had this and the placement, it makes senese. For Mk III and Mk IV platforms, the entire side profile was covered. Look at Panthers, Hetzers and Tiger IIs. Where is the armor? Below the sponson but above the wide diameter roadwheels -- this was a vulnerable area for the penetrating Russian 14.5mm AT rifle rounds.

The plate and mesh armor would make the AT rifle spin and shatter on the hull armor rather than penetrate it. Hope this helps.

That would be great Matt.I have saved a few photos that I found on the net.I don't have any reference books any more as gave most away a few years back .

Many thanks
Karl

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